Is feminism the solution to what MRAs often complain about?

[Deus Naturae]

Firstly, seriously, stfu.

SJW arguments in a nutshell.

If you are just spouting nonsense based on being a jerk with no empathy I'm not going to respectfully disagree. Give some actual arguments and act like human beings instead of piles of garbage and you might get thoughtful responses.

The tired MRA-harping about how great it is to be raped or whatever is not worthy of more than being told to shut up. I'm sorry if that hurts the feelings of you manly men.

Actually, I gave you a specific example of a false rape claim that got tons of attention and support. Just to be clear, I don't think this phenomena is unique to rape; there is a general disturbing trend trend towards believing accusations at face value and disparaging the rights of the accused.

Feel free to keep calling me a big mean pile of garbage instead of engaging, but I have to ask, why do you post on Atlas? It's not just this thread, in general you seem very reluctant to respond to arguments at all and prefer to condescend to and insult your opponents. Is arguing stressful for you?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Much of the hallmarks of a patriarchal culture - such as men being the chasers, women the guards - manifest itself in rape and sexual assault.

You're right, though should also be noted that the way many people claim we should deal with the problems of sexual assault only seem to reinforce these roles. Though men should obviously ensure consent is present, we should equally be empowering women to take control of the situation and say no if she doesn't want it. Women are not weak damsels in these scenarios, and the social response to rape and sexual assault shouldn't just be "make sure the men get the consent and handle the situation with extreme care" it should also be "make sure the women know they have the power to kick the guy in the balls if he tries anything messed up."

Take for instance situations where both parties are intoxicated; there are many feminists who would argue that drunk sex is always rape because consent is impossible if you're drunk. (And I don't mean black-out drunk, either; in that case I agree with them.) Who is held to account in that situation? It would almost certainly be the man, except using the logic there, he would obviously be just as unable to consent. This reinforces the "men need to be the guardians and handle the situation correctly all by themselves" patriarchal narrative that feminists claim they wish to dismantle. Laws like the aforementioned California consent law seem to have been implemented under the similar auspice of "men need to be responsible for sexual encounters because they're handling them wrong right now." Where are the campaigns to get women to take control and become equal owners of sex? The only way you can think this shouldn't happen is if you assume women are just too scared and weak to do so, so us men need to handle it for them. I strongly disagree with that.

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Yes, what he said there was dumb and needless.

Lots of good responses to the predictable misogynous BS.

What have I said that's misogynistic?

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But this is very easy to say. Virtually any case that goes to court would have the accused claiming they had consent. What can contradict that? It's not a written contract, it's not done under audio or video recording. Some rapists may even actually genuinely believe they had consent.

The problem with affirmative consent laws is that they can, in theory, be just as easily circumvented the way consent law is right now; a person just lies. This is why Klein argued the value of the law was not in the affirmative consent guidelines, but specifically in terrifying people by making an example out of the occasional innocent. That is a frightening path to open.

[Cory]

The tired MRA-harping about how great it is to be raped or whatever is not worthy of more than being told to shut up. I'm sorry if that hurts the feelings of you manly men.

Literally no one in this thread said this. You are just flat making things up at this point because you aren't actually capable of constructing a counter-argument.

[Beet]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

     Yeah, this thread is also why we can't have nice things. Other than Marokai's posts, everything about this is bad, bad, and more bad.

[Beet]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

     Yeah, this thread is also why we can't have nice things. Other than Marokai's posts, everything about this is bad, bad, and more bad.

lol

[All Along The Watchtower]

Wasn't rape within marriages not illegal in some states until the 90s?

Also, re: MRAS-what kind of additional rights (legal or even just in terms of cultural expectations) do specifically men need that they (we) don't already have? There's a reason that men aren't a protected class.

[Mr. Smith]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

     Yeah, this thread is also why we can't have nice things. Other than Marokai's posts, everything about this is bad, bad, and more bad.

Agreed

This thread has been nothing but ignorance, myopia, dismissal, hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance, and in my case, a lack of articulation. The former five make it impossible to actually try and bring up issues. The final only exacerbates the former.

So I'm washing my hands of this, and sighing a breath of relief  should this topic get locked.

But while it still goes, I'm still not touching this thread with a nine-yard stick again.

[traininthedistance]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

     Yeah, this thread is also why we can't have nice things. Other than Marokai's posts, everything about this is bad, bad, and more bad.

Agreed

This thread has been nothing but ignorance, myopia, dismissal, hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance, and in my case, a lack of articulation. The former five make it impossible to actually try and bring up issues. The final only exacerbates the former.

So I'm washing my hands of this, and sighing a breath of relief  should this topic get locked.

But while it still goes, I'm still not touching this thread with a nine-yard stick again.

Yes, I do believe that it would be best for Atlas to stop talking about these issues, at least until this place isn't such a sausagefest.  The lack of women's voices in these discussions is a pretty obvious problem.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Goodness gracious, atlas really needs to ban discussions about feminism. I really don't know why I allowed myself to get sucked into these threads.

     Yeah, this thread is also why we can't have nice things. Other than Marokai's posts, everything about this is bad, bad, and more bad.

lol

I'm putting way more of a good-faith effort into these threads than you (and frankly, than most people), dude.

Yes, I do believe that it would be best for Atlas to stop talking about these issues, at least until this place isn't such a sausagefest.  The lack of women's voices in these discussions is a pretty obvious problem.

I want more women on Atlas just as well, but it wouldn't make the identical arguments being made here suddenly infallible.

[traininthedistance]

Yes, I do believe that it would be best for Atlas to stop talking about these issues, at least until this place isn't such a sausagefest.  The lack of women's voices in these discussions is a pretty obvious problem.

I want more women on Atlas just as well, but it wouldn't make the identical arguments being made here suddenly infallible.

Sorry to bump this, meant to respond but got distracted by MAD REDISTRICTING-A-PALOOZA elsewhere on this here site.

I've been thinking about this statement. I disagree in ways that are strong but hard to coherently articulate.  I guess what I will say is that the failure here seems to be more one of emphasis and perspective rather than just logic-in-a-vacuum, and that's something that would be remedied by a more welcoming atmosphere/diverse presence ipso facto.

I kind of feel like I ought to launch a more rigorous defense of the above statement, but, again, my attention has been diverted elsewhere, so you probably shouldn't hold your breath.  Just wanted to get the above on the record, sorry if this seems like a cop-out.