Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

What a wonderful fantasy world some posters live in where anti-discrimination laws are no longer needed! If only the real world were so perfect!

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

If you mean that the level of discrimination would be so minor as to make such laws on private businesses unnecessary, then maybe.  The homogenization of American society along with the franchizification of American commerce mean that the public accommodation laws aren't strongly needed,  Shame and boycotts can probably deal with that area of commerce.  Housing and employment are areas where a stronger case can be made, certainly strong enough that I see no reason to repeal such laws, and a partial repeal for just public accommodations would be more trouble than it would be worth.

I think that's an incredibly naive way of thinking. Yes, there are many parts of the country where actively discriminating against gay people in the name of "religious freedom" would drive a company out of business. But there are plenty of regions where that's not the case. A town in rural Texas could easily have a supermarket, doctor's office, drug store and restaurants that proudly flaunt their "religious freedom," and because they live in a town that may oppose gay marriage by 80% or more, face little consequence. Quite the opposite -- there are many scenarios where a conservative Christian community would come together to protect such a business from harm.

Don't think this will happen? There are a stunning number of towns and communities that are actively working to skirt federal discrimination laws to keep black people out. This is not about protecting people's feelings. This is about protecting people from real financial harm in the name of a perversely twisted religious freedom to discriminate.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

If you mean that the level of discrimination would be so minor as to make such laws on private businesses unnecessary, then maybe.  The homogenization of American society along with the franchizification of American commerce mean that the public accommodation laws aren't strongly needed,  Shame and boycotts can probably deal with that area of commerce.  Housing and employment are areas where a stronger case can be made, certainly strong enough that I see no reason to repeal such laws, and a partial repeal for just public accommodations would be more trouble than it would be worth.

I think that's an incredibly naive way of thinking. Yes, there are many parts of the country where actively discriminating against gay people in the name of "religious freedom" would drive a company out of business. But there are plenty of regions where that's not the case. A town in rural Texas could easily have a supermarket, doctor's office, drug store and restaurants that proudly flaunt their "religious freedom," and because they live in a town that may oppose gay marriage by 80% or more, face little consequence. Quite the opposite -- there are many scenarios where a conservative Christian community would come together to protect such a business from harm.

Don't think this will happen? There are a stunning number of towns and communities that are actively working to skirt federal discrimination laws to keep black people out. This is not about protecting people's feelings. This is about protecting people from real financial harm in the name of a perversely twisted religious freedom to discriminate.

What does religious objection to gay marriage have to do with a drug store or a supermarket?

A devout Christian could want to deny filling a prescription for HIV preventative therapy under the name of religious freedom as it encourages gay sex, for example. And it was a conservative hand-wringer who worried that a supermarket cake baker could be required to provide a cake for a gay wedding (lol) or -- oh god can you imagine how terrible -- for a lesbian couple's child's birthday.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

The government does not have the right to infringe upon individual rights.


Business owners, on the other hand....

You don't have the right to force someone else to serve you.

Except that The Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits all kinds of discrimination in public accommodations like supermarkets and restaurants, was upheld as constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

The right to discriminate based on gender, race, color and national origin is pretty important to you, I guess. What important principles!

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Are you seriously quoting H L Mencken? A man who was a critic of democracy and believed strong men had the right to rule the weak? A man who conflated 'race' with caste and talked about racial stocks? A man that said talking to a coloured women was like speaking to a child?

I mean seriously?

A man who said this;  'The educated negro of today is a failure, not because he meets insuperable difficulties in life, but because he is a negro. He is, in brief, a low-caste man, to the manner born, and he will remain inert and inefficient until fifty generations of him have lived in civilization. And even then, the superior white race will be fifty generations ahead of him.'

You are quoting HIM to back up your argument?

Opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 seldom puts you in good company.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory has come out against his state's attempt to pass a "religious freedom" law. "What's the problem they're trying to solve?"

http://www.wral.com/mccrory-expresses-displeasure-with-nc-religious-freedom-law-proposals/14549302/

Meanwhile, in Indiana, paperwork has been filed to create the First Church of Cannabis.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/paperwork-filed-with-indiana-secretary-of-state-for-first-church-of-cannabis

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

The problem Pence and others seem to have here is an inability to understand that their "fix" still does the one thing people are really really outraged and protesting over -- allow discrimination against gays.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I don't have links because it is based on the statements by individuals made in IL to me a couple of years ago. Decorations (including names as well as figures) and delivery to a wedding site during a ceremony were the only bakery concerns I heard, but we have a strong Human Rights Act in IL, so the sale of a basic cake to a gay couple at a shop would be unlikely to come up. I agree that some compromises such as you suggest are the right way to resolve that, and it's similar to what was worked out for the pharmacists here in regards to the morning after pill. I'm not surprised to find that in other states where the history of their Human Rights Act might be different, other issues arise.

I am sure many Christians would draw the line there. Many others would draw the line elsewhere, as is the case of the "pro-family" interest groups that wrote the first law.