Is the author of Revelation the same as the Gospel and Epistles of John? (user search)
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  Is the author of Revelation the same as the Gospel and Epistles of John? (search mode)
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Question: Is the author of Revelation the same as the Gospel and Epistles of John?
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Yes
 
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No
 
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Author Topic: Is the author of Revelation the same as the Gospel and Epistles of John?  (Read 4460 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: February 20, 2015, 10:37:16 PM »

If they are the same person, the textual analysis would indicate that likely Revelation was written first and far earlier than generally thought.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 09:59:24 PM »

The Apostle John wrote all of them. Simple as that.
Why is it simple?  As has been pointed out, the authorship question stretches back to antiquity.  To a large degree the question was originally decided not so much on the evidence, but because it was felt that it had a bearing on whether Revelation should be in the canon.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 08:21:34 PM »

I don't get why it's so important for conservative Christians to insist that Paul wrote all 13 letters, or that Peter wrote the Petrine epistles, or that John wrote all of the Johannine literature.  what's really at stake?
  If the author is just some guy rather than one of the people who actually knew Jesus, then by the standard used to define the canon, they shouldn't be in the Bible.  1 and 2 Clement, Barnabas, the Didache, and other early works were excluded from the canon not because of their theology or a lack of popularity but because they lacked a direct connection to Christ.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 05:32:14 AM »

I don't get why it's so important for conservative Christians to insist that Paul wrote all 13 letters, or that Peter wrote the Petrine epistles, or that John wrote all of the Johannine literature.  what's really at stake?
  If the author is just some guy rather than one of the people who actually knew Jesus, then by the standard used to define the canon, they shouldn't be in the Bible.  1 and 2 Clement, Barnabas, the Didache, and other early works were excluded from the canon not because of their theology or a lack of popularity but because they lacked a direct connection to Christ.

But even going by traditional attribution of the books without bringing higher criticism into this, the traditional St. Luke (of Luke/Acts) never met Jesus, either. He was Paul's secretary.

Actually, according to tradition Luke was one of the Seventy Disciples sent out by Jesus.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 11:28:48 PM »
« Edited: May 05, 2015, 11:44:05 PM by True Federalist »

There's not even any clear evidence that the Gospel of John and the Johannine epistles were written by the same man, is there?

Critical scholarship based on textual analysis is divided.

A majority think the gospel and the epistles were products of a Johannine school centered on the Apostle John, with John himself being the editor of the gospel thus making him the author in the same sense that Cranmer could be viewed as the author of The Book of Common Prayer.

Many think John wrote the the first epistle himself, with doubts coming mainly from those who think its content points to a date after John's death. I can see it being a work written at the very end of his life when John was likely the last Apostle still living and expected that Jesus would soon come before he could die.

The other two letters are so inconsequential, its hard to know who wrote them or when, tho most think those two share common authorship based on textual analysis.  I think it likely given their content and that they were preserved is that what happened was John told his secretary to write a brief note telling the recipient that John planned to come visit them and why.  So in that sense they're letters of John the Apostle.

It's not like the Apocalypse of John, where the style is so different from the remainder of the Johannine literature that few critical scholars think it shares authorship with the rest of the Johannine corpus, and I share those doubts.  For that matter, I have serious doubts that the Apocalypse of John the Servant should even be part of the canon, but I haven't come to a conclusion.

Incidentally, as long as we're talking about Revelation, let me mention one idea I've had for who the twenty four elders are in the book.  Given the highly symbolic language of apocalyptic language in general, it's not even certain that they represent people. I think a good case can be made for them representing the twenty-four books of the Jewish cannon and thus symbolizing the common assertion that everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus if you only know how to read it. (Some books considered separate books in Christian labeling are part of one book in the Jewish canon, with the most extreme example being that the twelve Minor prophets are in Judaism one book instead of twelve.)
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 01:48:32 PM »

Coincidentally, in my morning Bible study, I came across a passage that makes clear to me that the author of the Gospel of John and the Apocalypse of John cannot possibly be the same John. I can't see how the same man could possibly pen both John 15:15 and Revelation 1:1.

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Not just in quoted passage, the author of Revelation uses the Greek word δοῦλος (doulos) in a fashion unlike the other Johannine works, but consistent with the synoptic gospels and the Pauline corpus.
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