57% now support sending U.S. ground troops to fight ISIS
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  57% now support sending U.S. ground troops to fight ISIS
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Author Topic: 57% now support sending U.S. ground troops to fight ISIS  (Read 6912 times)
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jfern
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2015, 10:45:55 PM »

Bill O'Reilly called for a "holy war". The ISIS recruitment posters will just write themselves.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 10:47:29 PM »

Good to see the US public opinion is finally coming around to this. Hopefully Europeans will feel the same way.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 11:25:22 PM »

I would support a fairly short term effort, but another 10 year ordeal should be out of the question.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2015, 11:52:27 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2015, 03:40:59 AM by IDS Judicial Overlord PiT »

Oh the insanity.

Fighting ISIS on the ground will not make them go away. ISIS will simply return to being the  guerrilla insurgency it was before last year. Meanwhile the lone wolf terrorism in the West will continue unabated.  What it will do is drive more civilians in these areas into the arms of ISIS, like it did the first time. ISIS wants another 'crusade', don't give it to them.

The US has to support the local government's efforts, not get anymore involved themselves.

     I remember in 2006 when Israel invaded Lebanon in an effort to wipe out Hezbollah. It was an unmitigated failure; while they dominated militarily, Hezbollah survived and rebuilt almost immediately. I guess 57% don't remember that.
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Knives
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2015, 01:50:21 AM »

I support airstrikes and supporting the Kurds/Iraqis but that's about it.
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jfern
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2015, 02:52:50 AM »

Oh the insanity.

Fighting ISIS on the ground will not make them go away. ISIS will simply return to being the  guerrilla insurgency it was before last year. Meanwhile the lone wolf terrorism in the West will continue unabated.  What it will do is drive more civilians in these areas into the arms of ISIS, like it did the first time. ISIS wants another 'crusade', don't give it to them.

The US has to support the local government's efforts, not get anymore involved themselves.

    I remember in 2006 when Israel invaded Lebanon in an effort to wipe out Hezbollah. It was an unmitigated failure; while they dominated militarily, Hezbollah survived and rebuilt almost immediately. I guess 57% don't remember that.

They also seem to have forgotten that the Iraq war took a country that even the Bush administration's State Department admitted that Al Qaeda wasn't active in, and managed to get a group worse than Al Qaeda in power. Everyone who supported that war should be begging for forgiveness.
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courts
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« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2015, 02:58:39 AM »

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ingemann
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« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2015, 05:11:57 PM »

I support air attacks and sending supplys to the Iraqi. Beside that I'm against using any land action other than using special forces to back the Iraqi.

There's a simple reason I'm against that. The American attempts to make Solomonic solution, to the whole ethnic problematic in Iraq, was a major reason for the Iraqi army being so toothless. Iraq should not have a inclusive army, they should have a one loyal to the central government. I fear that a new intervention, will enable USA to repeat many of the mistakes from the last time, forcing the Iraqi to make compromises which will have as terrible long term effects as the one forced on Iraq the last time.
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Oak Hills
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« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2015, 11:07:32 PM »

Oh the insanity.

Fighting ISIS on the ground will not make them go away. ISIS will simply return to being the  guerrilla insurgency it was before last year. Meanwhile the lone wolf terrorism in the West will continue unabated.  What it will do is drive more civilians in these areas into the arms of ISIS, like it did the first time. ISIS wants another 'crusade', don't give it to them.

The US has to support the local government's efforts, not get anymore involved themselves.

     I remember in 2006 when Israel invaded Lebanon in an effort to wipe out Hezbollah. It was an unmitigated failure; while they dominated militarily, Hezbollah survived and rebuilt almost immediately. I guess 57% don't remember that.

I suspect that the majority of Americans were never aware of that fact in the first place.
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Cory
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2015, 11:11:30 PM »

I'll confess: In hindsight, we should have never pulled out of Iraq when we did to begin with.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2015, 11:56:19 PM »

Oh the insanity.

Fighting ISIS on the ground will not make them go away. ISIS will simply return to being the  guerrilla insurgency it was before last year. Meanwhile the lone wolf terrorism in the West will continue unabated.  What it will do is drive more civilians in these areas into the arms of ISIS, like it did the first time. ISIS wants another 'crusade', don't give it to them.

The US has to support the local government's efforts, not get anymore involved themselves.

     I remember in 2006 when Israel invaded Lebanon in an effort to wipe out Hezbollah. It was an unmitigated failure; while they dominated militarily, Hezbollah survived and rebuilt almost immediately. I guess 57% don't remember that.

I suspect that the majority of Americans were never aware of that fact in the first place.


     I distinctly remember it being all over the news when it happened. Though if people don't remember it then they might as well have never known about it to begin with.
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2015, 12:51:53 AM »

While it is true that Americans seem to be warming up to a more aggressive stance, I think that this is one of those things where wording really counts. Would Americans really support an Iraq War level commitment (which was 200,000 troops and trillions of $?). And do they really want us to invade Syria with combat troops? (not too long ago they were against even air strikes in Syria)
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jfern
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« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2015, 01:00:36 AM »

I would support a fairly short term effort, but another 10 year ordeal should be out of the question.

 “It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.” - Donald Rumsfeld Feb. 7 2003
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Frodo
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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2015, 02:53:48 AM »

If by 'ground troops' we mean conventional Army/Marines formations, then absolutely not.  Airstrikes and Special Operations forces is the most we should be contributing.  Our allies in the region should be providing the conventional forces in our war against the Islamic State.

While it is true that Americans seem to be warming up to a more aggressive stance, I think that this is one of those things where wording really counts. Would Americans really support an Iraq War level commitment (which was 200,000 troops and trillions of $?). And do they really want us to invade Syria with combat troops? (not too long ago they were against even air strikes in Syria)

We don't need combat troops to destroy the Assad regime -if we really wanted to oust him, all that would be required is to provide the insurgents air cover, and they could take care of the rest.  Bashar al-Assad is not Saddam Hussein -he is far weaker. 
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2015, 03:58:07 AM »

When does all of this end? What invasion of the Middle East will result in the outcome that we are looking for? I also note the hilarity of the absence of reply from Cory; he must have been stumped.

Maybe the fifth time we will finally be hailed as liberators.
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« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2015, 12:49:03 PM »

When does all of this end? What invasion of the Middle East will result in the outcome that we are looking for?

we'll spit through the streets of the cities we wreck
and we'll find you a leader that you can elect
those treaties we signed were a pain in the neck
'cause we're the Cops of the World, boys
we're the Cops of the World
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AkSaber
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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2015, 12:51:48 PM »

Sadly...

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Oak Hills
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« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2015, 12:55:48 PM »

Oh the insanity.

Fighting ISIS on the ground will not make them go away. ISIS will simply return to being the  guerrilla insurgency it was before last year. Meanwhile the lone wolf terrorism in the West will continue unabated.  What it will do is drive more civilians in these areas into the arms of ISIS, like it did the first time. ISIS wants another 'crusade', don't give it to them.

The US has to support the local government's efforts, not get anymore involved themselves.

     I remember in 2006 when Israel invaded Lebanon in an effort to wipe out Hezbollah. It was an unmitigated failure; while they dominated militarily, Hezbollah survived and rebuilt almost immediately. I guess 57% don't remember that.

I suspect that the majority of Americans were never aware of that fact in the first place.


     I distinctly remember it being all over the news when it happened. Though if people don't remember it then they might as well have never known about it to begin with.

What I meant was that they hadn't ever realized that the invasion was an "unmitigated failure", not that the invasion itself occurred.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2015, 12:59:03 PM »


Well that's an impressive non-sequitur... Congrats.
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AkSaber
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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2015, 01:07:42 PM »

Well that's an impressive non-sequitur... Congrats.

I'm amazed when I listen to all the formerly-anti war Democrats/liberals/progressives desperately scream and holler for a new war, they can't (or won't) acknowledge they sound exactly the same as the conservatives did 12 years ago.
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Beet
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« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2015, 01:10:42 PM »

I'm still against sending ground troops, as are lots of people in this thread.
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bgwah
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« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2015, 01:20:02 PM »

Well that's an impressive non-sequitur... Congrats.

I'm amazed when I listen to all the formerly-anti war Democrats/liberals/progressives desperately scream and holler for a new war, they can't (or won't) acknowledge they sound exactly the same as the conservatives did 12 years ago.

So you believe Democrats/liberals/progressives oppose war in all circumstances? Because in that very same era you keep referencing, I seem to recall the invasion of Afghanistan having close to 90% support. I don't recall any mass marches against it. It didn't matter that we had a Republican President, as that intervention seemed justifiable to most Americans regardless of party or ideology.

Perhaps some of us didn't think invading Iraq over a series of blatant lies was a good idea. I don't think the same necessarily applies to the current situation.

You're trying to pull a "Gotchya!" attack, but it makes no sense. Oh and by the way, it was your party's war that ultimately created what is now ISIS.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2015, 01:57:18 PM »

You can never permanently stabilize a country with ground troops.  You can temporarily stabilize a country, but eventually you have to leave.  That was the folly of Iraq.  Our troops just sort of aimlessly patrolled the country while the country's civil society and political leadership failed to find a coherent government that could keep the trains running on time.  That isn't different now.  People get this attitude that, "something has to be done!"  Unfortunately, it's not enough to do something, "something" needs to be part of a long term strategy that makes sense and gives our military an achievable goal.

At the same time, sometimes there's no good solution to a problem.  With ISIS, we can't just sit by and hope things turn out.  It's clear that governments in the Middle East are incompetent and afraid of their own Islamist elements.  They would prefer if someone else stepped to the plate.  It's a moral hazard problem if we become the world's police.  Instead, I think Obama is taking the best course of action.  We're still the straw that stirs the drink, by providing our air force and logistics, but we need the local players to buy in and do the heavy lifting on the ground.

As for this whole anti-war/ Iraq War redux nonsense, give me a break.  It's not nearly that simple.  We can't snap our fingers and unilaterally have a peaceful world.  And, war is not some fungible thing.  A war that costs $2 trillion is different from a war that costs $5 billion.  A war that costs a handful of American lives is different from a war that costs thousands of American lives.  If you don't factor those obvious points into your analysis, you're just a whiner, a moaner and an annoying "activist." 
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RR1997
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« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2015, 02:02:12 PM »

Good to see the US public opinion is finally coming around to this. Hopefully Europeans will feel the same way.
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AkSaber
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« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2015, 02:29:22 PM »

So you believe Democrats/liberals/progressives oppose war in all circumstances? Because in that very same era you keep referencing, I seem to recall the invasion of Afghanistan having close to 90% support. I don't recall any mass marches against it. It didn't matter that we had a Republican President, as that intervention seemed justifiable to most Americans regardless of party or ideology.

Perhaps some of us didn't think invading Iraq over a series of blatant lies was a good idea. I don't think the same necessarily applies to the current situation.

You're trying to pull a "Gotchya!" attack, but it makes no sense. Oh and by the way, it was your party's war that ultimately created what is now ISIS.

The same formula which created ISIS in the first place, will be the one which annihilates them? Forgive me, but the story the warmongers have used to perpetuate the intervention in the Middle East has changed so much over the course of the last decade or so their credibility is nonexistent.
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