Major City vs. Giant Suburb

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

It's simple, what's the line between them?

There are a lot of very big suburbs, and a lot of major cities. Sometimes they are right next to each other, which also blurs the line. Is Ft. Worth a giant suburb of Dallas, or a major city in its own right? There's also Baltimore and DC, and of course Minneapolis and St. Paul.
 
Looking at America's largest cities, which is the last Major City (besides the capitol cities) and which is the first Giant Suburb?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Baltimore is definitely its own city.

[retromike22]

I think the last major city was Las Vegas and the first giant suburb was Brooklyn, which was a separate city for a while.

[Reginald]

Determining the line between city and suburb isn't simple at all. Each of the cities you mention has genuinely urban and suburban territory within them, which compounds the issue. But the only way Fort Worth and St. Paul are suburbs is if you insist on metro areas having one (1) central city, which is blatantly stupid in my eyes.

[ElectionsGuy]

A major city is one that has the highest population in the general area and is centralized (I know that's vague) and a giant suburb has to revolve around that place. Some examples...

Major city: Phoenix
Giant suburb: Mesa

Major City: Dallas
Giant suburb: Garland

Major City: Indianapolis
Giant suburb: Carmel

Major city: Las Vegas
Giant suburb: Henderson

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

I think the last major city was Las Vegas and the first giant suburb was Brooklyn, which was a separate city for a while.

Brooklyn isn't a suburb, it's a part of NYC.

What about Long Beach? I read somewhere that it's the largest suburb.

[ag]

I think the last major city was Las Vegas and the first giant suburb was Brooklyn, which was a separate city for a while.

Brooklyn isn't a suburb, it's a part of NYC.

In 2015 - yes , of course. In 1890, though, it wasn't.

[traininthedistance]

I think the last major city was Las Vegas and the first giant suburb was Brooklyn, which was a separate city for a while.

Brooklyn isn't a suburb, it's a part of NYC.

In 2015 - yes , of course. In 1890, though, it wasn't.

Brooklyn, of course, was a full-fledged city in its own right.

The first American suburb was either Northern Liberties or Southwark.  Southwark looks like it was a tiny bit older, but Northern Liberties is better if you want something "giant", since it was sixth-largest place in America for all of the first three Censuses.

[jimrtex]

It's simple, what's the line between them?

There are a lot of very big suburbs, and a lot of major cities. Sometimes they are right next to each other, which also blurs the line. Is Ft. Worth a giant suburb of Dallas, or a major city in its own right? There's also Baltimore and DC, and of course Minneapolis and St. Paul.
 
Looking at America's largest cities, which is the last Major City (besides the capitol cities) and which is the first Giant Suburb?

If you take the 100 largest cities beginning in 1920, when personal car ownership was becoming large enough to support suburbs, a cutoff of 1960 could be used to classify as a city, while 1970+ would be a suburb.   Cities that dropped out of the Top 100 are in parentheses.

Boston: (Cambridge), (Lawrence), (Lowell), (Lynn), (Somerville)

Albany: (Schenectady), (Troy)

New York: Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Yonkers, (Elizabeth), (Bayonne)

Philadelphia: (Camden)

(Scranton): (Wilkes-Barre)

Washington: Arlington

Chicago: Gary

Minneapolis: St. Paul

Kansas City: Kansas City, KS

Tampa: St. Petersburg

Dallas: Fort Worth

Seattle: Tacoma

San Francisco: Oakland, (Berkeley)

Los Angeles: Long Beach

++++++++++++++++++++

1970s: Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale, Riverside, Santa Ana, Virginia Beach, Warren

1980s: Arlington, TX, Aurora, CO, Huntington Beach, Metairie

1990: Fremont, Garland, Glendale, CA, Hialeah

2000: Glendale. AZ, Chesapeake, Irving, Mesa, Plano

2010: Chandler, Chula Vista, Durham, Gilbert, Henderson, Irvine, North Las Vegas, San Bernardino, Scottsdale, Winston-Salem

++++++++

Meanwhile, many of the cities that we don't really consider major cities were dropping from the Top 100.  While not really bedroom communities, they are more like satellite employment center, sharing suburbs with the large neighbors.

1930 (added): Chattanooga. Gary(S), Long Beach(S), Miami, Rockford, Sacramento, Tampa
1930(dropped): Harrisburg, Lawrence(S), Manchester, St. Joseph, Savannah, Sioux City, Troy(S)

1940(added): Charlotte, Little Rock, Savannah, Shreveport
1940(dropped): Bayonne(S), Rockford, Schenectady(S), Wilkes-Barre(S)

1950(added): Arlington VA, Austin, Baton Rouge, Berkeley(S), Corpus Christi, Mobile, Phoenix
1950(dropped): Duluth, Little Rock, Lowell(S), Lynn(S), Somerville(S), Utica, Waterbury

1960(added): Albuquerque, Amarillo, Fresno, Greensboro, Honolulu, Jackson, Lincoln, Lubbock, Madison, Montgomery, Rockford, St. Petersburg(S), San Jose, Tucson
1960(dropped): Allentown, Berkeley(S), Cambridge(S), Camden(S), Canton, Elizabeth(S), Fall River, Knoxville. New Bedford, Peoria, Reading, Scranton, Trenton, Wilmington

10 of the 31 new big cities from 1930 to 1960 were state capitals, while three were dropped (Little Rock is in both groups).

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

[jimrtex]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

Cities that were in Top 100 before 1970 AND after 1970, and are within 30 miles of a larger city.

New York: Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Yonkers

Washington: Arlington

Chicago: Gary

Minneapolis: St. Paul

Kansas City: Kansas City, KS

Tampa: St. Petersburg

Dallas: Fort Worth

Seattle: Tacoma

San Francisco: Oakland

Los Angeles: Long Beach

[pbrower2a]

It's simple, what's the line between them?

There are a lot of very big suburbs, and a lot of major cities. Sometimes they are right next to each other, which also blurs the line. Is Ft. Worth a giant suburb of Dallas, or a major city in its own right? There's also Baltimore and DC, and of course Minneapolis and St. Paul.
 
Looking at America's largest cities, which is the last Major City (besides the capitol cities) and which is the first Giant Suburb?

Fort Worth is a large city in its own right.

1880    6,663       —
1890    23,076       246.3%
1900    26,668       15.6%
1910    73,312       174.9%
1920    106,482       45.2%
1930    163,447       53.5%
1940    177,662       8.7%
1950    278,778       56.9%
1960    356,268       27.8%
1970    393,476       10.4%
1980    385,164       −2.1%
1990    447,619       16.2%
2000    534,697       19.5%
2010    741,206       38.6%
Est. 2013    792,727       7.0%

1850    1,073       —
1860    698       −34.9%
1870    3,000       329.8%
1880    10,358       245.3%
1890    38,069       267.5%
1900    42,639       12.0%
1910    92,104       116.0%
1920    158,976       72.6%
1930    269,475       69.5%
1940    294,734       9.4%
1950    434,469       47.4%
1960    679,684       56.4%
1970    844,401       24.2%
1980    904,078       7.1%
1990    1,006,977       11.4%
2000    1,188,580       18.0%
2010    1,197,816       0.8%
Est. 2013    1,257,676       5.0%

It has never been bigger than Dallas, but it has its own suburbs -- and shares some with Dallas. Minneapolis and Saint Paul, Tampa and St. Petersburg, San Francisco and San Jose, and Baltimore and Washington do that, too.

A city between them (Arlington) is one of the largest suburbs in the United States. 

[retromike22]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Long Beach might be the largest city that isn't a county seat.

[Torie]

I think the last major city was Las Vegas and the first giant suburb was Brooklyn, which was a separate city for a while.

Brooklyn isn't a suburb, it's a part of NYC.

What about Long Beach? I read somewhere that it's the largest suburb.

Long Beach, old and big, almost as old, and older on average, than LA City itself,  is more like a giant city next to a gargantuan city. Like Ft. Worth to Dallas, it's a giant city next to a giant city, with burbs between.

[jimrtex]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Long Beach might be the largest city that isn't a county seat.

Are New York City and Baltimore county seats?

Mesa, AZ will likely overtake Long Beach by the end of the decade.  Kansas City, MO which is just behind Long Beach is not the county seat of Jackson County.  Virginia Beach, VA is just behind Kansas City, and is not unambiguously a county seat.  Three cities with over 300.000 persons which are not county seats are Arlington, TX; Autora, CO; and Anaheim, CA.  St. Louis, MO also has over 300,000 for now.

[cinyc]

Are New York City and Baltimore county seats?

Every borough of New York City is its own county, with a borough hall and courthouse.  So I guess New York City has 5 county seats, technically.

[Mr. Illini]

It has to do with whether to city developed independently of the larger city or if it was a result of people moving there to work in the city/people in the city moving there to get out of the city.

Fort Worth is a suburb of Dallas, Baltimore is not a suburb of DC.

[jimrtex]

It has to do with whether to city developed independently of the larger city or if it was a result of people moving there to work in the city/people in the city moving there to get out of the city.

Fort Worth is a suburb of Dallas, Baltimore is not a suburb of DC.

Fort Worth does not qualify under your definition.

[nclib]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Long Beach might be the largest city that isn't a county seat.

Are New York City and Baltimore county seats?

Mesa, AZ will likely overtake Long Beach by the end of the decade.  Kansas City, MO which is just behind Long Beach is not the county seat of Jackson County.  Virginia Beach, VA is just behind Kansas City, and is not unambiguously a county seat.  Three cities with over 300.000 persons which are not county seats are Arlington, TX; Autora, CO; and Anaheim, CA.  St. Louis, MO also has over 300,000 for now.

Cities that have their own county (Philly, StL, Va. Beach, etc.), shouldn't really count as not being a county seat.

That leaves...

Long Beach, CA
Kansas City, MO (though Wiki says it's pretty much a second county seat)
Mesa, AZ
Arlington, TX
Aurora, CO
Anaheim, CA

Only Kansas City is the largest city in its county. For some reason, its election results report individually from the county.

If KCM doesn't count, what would be the largest city that's their county's largest city that is not a county seat?

[jimrtex]

So what about Long Beach? Is it the largest suburb? (Not counting St. Paul and Ft. Worth obviously)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Long Beach might be the largest city that isn't a county seat.

Are New York City and Baltimore county seats?

Mesa, AZ will likely overtake Long Beach by the end of the decade.  Kansas City, MO which is just behind Long Beach is not the county seat of Jackson County.  Virginia Beach, VA is just behind Kansas City, and is not unambiguously a county seat.  Three cities with over 300.000 persons which are not county seats are Arlington, TX; Autora, CO; and Anaheim, CA.  St. Louis, MO also has over 300,000 for now.

Cities that have their own county (Philly, StL, Va. Beach, etc.), shouldn't really count as not being a county seat.

That leaves...

Long Beach, CA
Kansas City, MO (though Wiki says it's pretty much a second county seat)
Mesa, AZ
Arlington, TX
Aurora, CO
Anaheim, CA

Only Kansas City is the largest city in its county. For some reason, its election results report individually from the county.

If KCM doesn't count, what would be the largest city that's their county's largest city that is not a county seat?

Anaheim is the largest city in Orange County.  Aurora is the largest city in Arapahoe County, though it extends in two others.

Kansas City has its own election board for the portion of the city within Jackson County.  On the SOS, website, the local election authorities are listed by the county name with the exception of:

St.Louis County
St.Louis City
Jackson County, excluding Kansas Ctiy
Kansas City, within Jackson County
Platte County Board of Elections

The first two recognize the political distinction.  It may be that large cities had their own board of elections, but all but that of Kansas City have been absorbed, or it might be that no cities other than St.Louis and Kansas City were recognized as large enough to have their own BOE.  Springfield is (or was) much smaller than the two big cities.   As Kansas City expanded north of the Missouri River, Clay and Platte may have simply continued to administer elections (34% of KC population is now north of the river), so it is not exactly true to say that KC elections are reported separately.

I don't know the reason why "Platte County Board of Elections" is used rather than "Platte".  It may be an attempt to disambiguate from Platte City, or perhaps a historical reflection of a time when Kansas City conducted its own elections in the county, if it ever did.