Opinion of Iggy Azalea
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Author Topic: Opinion of Iggy Azalea  (Read 11027 times)
Deus Naturae
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« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2015, 04:20:32 PM »
« edited: February 25, 2015, 04:23:32 PM by Deus Naturae »

OK, those are some white guys where Native American headdresses. Who cares?

If the answer to that is you, please explain how anyone is harmed by their headwear.
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20RP12
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« Reply #101 on: February 25, 2015, 06:13:41 PM »


OK, those are some white guys where Native American headdresses. Who cares?

If the answer to that is you, please explain how anyone is harmed by their headwear.

Because they are trying to claim something that doesn't belong to them. Not all oppression is about physically harming someone. When a culture absorbs another culture and makes it into a fashion statement, it fully demeans and debases that culture. The significance of the Native American headdress holds meaning to tribes that it does not hold to white people that wear it either as a piece of fashion or as a decoration while they get drunk and scream at a football game. White people have already made a concerted effort to subdue the influence of Native American culture in the United States by essentially isolating them and just treating them like they're a burden. Now that people are going to take the aspects of their culture that they find conveniently fashionable whilst sweeping everything else about them under the rug, they're getting even more drowned out because they don't even have claim to something that was purely their own anymore.

So to answer your question: It's not physically harming anyone, but it's playing into a long standing tradition of treating them like sewer rats.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #102 on: February 25, 2015, 09:08:32 PM »

Her music is god awful and I agree with what RR said about her having a weird face. I'd still hit it though.

Since this is Deus I'm not sure if "it" is a dehumanizing term for a woman or refers to his desire to punch a woman in the face.
This is a common expression among the youth. Lighten up, old man. Smiley

Not age related. It has been a common expression for decades. You saying "her having a weird face. I'd still hit it though" was either funny or disturbing (freudian slip) depending on how people view you.

Yeah, everyone knows the expression. I was poking fun at one of our worst misogynists phrasing his sentence in a way that sounded like domestic abuse (granted when I type it out...but I have a dark sense of humour) but I also wanted to take a swipe at the expression.

It's one of those things you shouldn't be saying without irony.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #103 on: February 25, 2015, 11:33:28 PM »


OK, those are some white guys where Native American headdresses. Who cares?

If the answer to that is you, please explain how anyone is harmed by their headwear.

Because they are trying to claim something that doesn't belong to them. Not all oppression is about physically harming someone. When a culture absorbs another culture and makes it into a fashion statement, it fully demeans and debases that culture. The significance of the Native American headdress holds meaning to tribes that it does not hold to white people that wear it either as a piece of fashion or as a decoration while they get drunk and scream at a football game. White people have already made a concerted effort to subdue the influence of Native American culture in the United States by essentially isolating them and just treating them like they're a burden. Now that people are going to take the aspects of their culture that they find conveniently fashionable whilst sweeping everything else about them under the rug, they're getting even more drowned out because they don't even have claim to something that was purely their own anymore.

So to answer your question: It's not physically harming anyone, but it's playing into a long standing tradition of treating them like sewer rats.
I don't really know what to say to this. Unless you can give me a concrete example of how actual Native Americans are harmed (doesn't have to be physical) I'm not buying it. I've been to an actual Native American reservation and believe me, they've got bigger problems than white guys wearing hats that most tribes never actually wore (shame on you for stereotyping them like that). The Sioux were the only tribe to ever really wear those things. Do you think that members of other tribes are appropriating Sioux culture when they wear headdresses at pow wows?

Your viewpoint (well, I have a hard time believing that its really "yours" but whatever) is also ahistorical in the extreme. Very few cultures today would even exist if it wasn't for people adopting and fusing aspects of other cultures with their own. You seem to be advocating for some kind of cultural segregation where no culture ever changes or syncretizes with any aspect of another. There's a lot of rich cultural heritage from many different cultures that wouldn't exist if people like you had been in charge.
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20RP12
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« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2015, 06:18:29 AM »

I have no problem with people making efforts to learn about or even participate in other cultures--it's the fact that some people do it for the sake of being "cool" or "cutting edge" without really respecting the culture they're appropriating that makes me upset. I'm not saying I want "cultural segregation", I want people to co-exist and respect each other and not just make trends out of someone's religion or race or whatever. Essentially, to boil it all down, my problem isn't with white people just wearing headdresses, or Iggy Azaelea "talking black", it's with the fact that they're doing it because they think they're being innovative and that they've discovered something hip. Did you know there's a shirt being sold on some website (forget where) that has Kurt Cobain's suicide note printed on it? Why is that a thing? Why does everything have to be a trend or a fashion statement?
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TNF
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« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2015, 07:41:22 AM »

I have no problem with people making efforts to learn about or even participate in other cultures--it's the fact that some people do it for the sake of being "cool" or "cutting edge" without really respecting the culture they're appropriating that makes me upset. I'm not saying I want "cultural segregation", I want people to co-exist and respect each other and not just make trends out of someone's religion or race or whatever. Essentially, to boil it all down, my problem isn't with white people just wearing headdresses, or Iggy Azaelea "talking black", it's with the fact that they're doing it because they think they're being innovative and that they've discovered something hip. Did you know there's a shirt being sold on some website (forget where) that has Kurt Cobain's suicide note printed on it? Why is that a thing? Why does everything have to be a trend or a fashion statement?

Who cares?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2015, 07:47:30 AM »
« Edited: February 26, 2015, 07:50:20 AM by Mechaman »

I can say that I am pretty impressed, but not really surprised, at how this thread has turned out.  Yes, leave it to the Atlas to create an Opinion Of thread about a randomass pop star and turn it into some huge tirade laden debate about society and values or whatevthefuk this is about now.

Congratulations guys.  I am sure humanity will applaud your efforts on this front for all future posterity.

EDIT: The outrage in this thread has made me rock solid.  Time to hit tumblr for some social justice porn.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2015, 08:50:22 AM »

Neutral. I have no idea who she is or what she does and I'd like to keep it that way.
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20RP12
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« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2015, 09:01:52 AM »

Did you know there's a shirt being sold on some website (forget where) that has Kurt Cobain's suicide note printed on it? Why is that a thing? Why does everything have to be a trend or a fashion statement?

Who cares?

A man took his own life and people made it in into a piece of clothing. My whole point is trying to say that not everything needs to be a trend, especially not things that are delicate and personal.
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ingemann
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« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2015, 10:10:45 AM »

Did you know there's a shirt being sold on some website (forget where) that has Kurt Cobain's suicide note printed on it? Why is that a thing? Why does everything have to be a trend or a fashion statement?

Who cares?

A man took his own life and people made it in into a piece of clothing. My whole point is trying to say that not everything needs to be a trend, especially not things that are delicate and personal.

A website sells shirts with a very bad taste text on it... who cares, I don't because I hadn't heard about the website. In fact I find the whole selling Che shirts much worse, simply because it's so common.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2015, 10:15:18 AM »

I once met a guy who had a bin Laden t-shirt because "he is an important man of our time". I said "oh, so it's kind of like having a Hitler t-shirt around 1940 then?"

That was too provocative for him so he walked away. Sad
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ingemann
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« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2015, 10:25:02 AM »

I once met a guy who had a bin Laden t-shirt because "he is an important man of our time". I said "oh, so it's kind of like having a Hitler t-shirt around 1940 then?"

That was too provocative for him so he walked away. Sad

I support shirts like that, it make it easier to know who to avoid, and in case of a terror attack easier for the police to know who to shot. Yes there will likely be some collateral damage among the hipster community, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2015, 09:51:15 PM »

Neutral. I have no idea who she is or what she does and I'd like to keep it that way.

Bart Baker has outlined everything you need to know about Iggy Rhododendron.
Oh, and btw, you don't miss a thing.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2015, 09:20:21 AM »

Cultural appropriation is bullsh#t and anyone legitimately engaging that kind of pseudo-Maoist nonsense is terrible and should be ashamed of themselves.

I... agree?

"Cultural appropriation" is how cultures form to begin with.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2015, 05:30:54 AM »

Only a warped mind could think that liking the way Black people talk and wanting to talk like them = racism

Racism used to mean hatred of a race. Now it's been redefined to pretty much mean "a White person did something with prefacing it with an apology for being White"
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #115 on: February 28, 2015, 06:15:19 AM »

Neutral. I have no idea who she is or what she does and I'd like to keep it that way.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #116 on: February 28, 2015, 07:00:24 AM »

Musically she's fine. Her beats are good. The production is good. She raps fine.

I have no idea why people say she can't rap. I guess they're trying to take a cop out position, they don't want to talk about cultural appropriation so instead they throw their hands up and say "she just sucks cus she can't rap!"

What exactly is bad about her rap? She says lots of words fast and rhythmically and she does it on most of her tracks. She's not like a lot of rappers who only rap a single verse and it's very slow, or only show up on the chorus, which is usually barely rapping.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2015, 03:23:48 PM »
« Edited: February 28, 2015, 03:48:26 PM by TheDeadFlagBlues »

I have many thoughts about Iggy Azalea and cultural appropriation, here are some of them:

Iggy Azalea is terrible. Her rapping is derivative, the beats she uses are derivative etc. She's popular because of her image rather than her music. There's no shortage of female rappers in hip-hop. There's a shortage of marketable female rappers in hip-hop. It's not a coincidence that there are very few black female rappers in the mainstream. It's a reflection of racism and sexism.

That being said, I don't dislike Iggy Azalea because of this. I dislike her because she's a gibbering idiot who insulted Q-Tip, made moronic statements about Aborigines in Australia and doesn't care about hip-hop as a cultural force. It would be one thing if she was another generic music figure marketed by a label but she's also an idiot.

The fact this thread was focused on cultural appropriation is embarrassing. Cultural appropriation is certainly a phenomenon but it's not necessarily problematic. Cultural appropriation is problematic when an advantaged class takes the raw cultural materials of an oppressed class and markets these materials in a slightly different package in order to profit. I think it's a problem when labels hire attractive/capable performers, hire writers/producers to create a musical aesthetic that is highly plagiarized and profits off the aesthetic. I don't think this is a Maoist or a Third Worldist perspective. It's simply a recognition of the consequences of power differentials in society. Does Iggy Azalea embody this form of cultural appropriation? Yes, absolutely. Does this mean that white "artists" can't or shouldn't create forms of art influenced by cultural others? No, absolutely not.

There is no immediate solution to the problematic aspects of cultural appropriation because this feature of cultural production is inherent to the racialist economic structure of American society. My only prescription is that white artists should be humble and give credit to those that influenced them. This isn't a difficult task and it's not too much to ask. I don't like Macklemore's music but I give him credit for recognizing that his success stands on the shoulders of the Black community. I disdain Iggy Azalea because she hasn't done this. Instead, she's denigrated the historic origins of hip-hop by insulting key figures like Q-Tip, she's implicitly asserted that society is "post-racial" and she's implicitly asserted that hip-hop has nothing to do with race. Even if this stance is to be expected, it's still deserves condemnation.  Iggy Azalea has no authority to make claims about hip-hop but she's done it anyway.

All in all, this isn't very important. Nevertheless, it saddens me. After all, Iggy Azalea is the only white rapper millions of people will ever hear about, with the obvious exclusion of Eminem and Macklemore. There are many good white rappers who make innovative music that are overlooked and they'll be instantly labeled as "less authentic" or "cultural appropriators" because of Iggy Azalea.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #118 on: February 28, 2015, 03:55:28 PM »

Cultural appropriation is bullsh#t and anyone legitimately engaging that kind of pseudo-Maoist nonsense is terrible and should be ashamed of themselves.

I... agree?

"Cultural appropriation" is how cultures form to begin with.

No one with a brain would dispute this. Nevertheless, it's worth considering that cultural appropriation doesn't necessarily have ameliorative effects on discrimination faced by racialized and/or exoticized others. African-Americans laid the foundation for the vast majority of contemporary music but they haven't received much credit for this. Picasso was influenced by African tribal art but most people are not aware of this. Gitanos in Spain are arguably responsible for Andalusian music but they still face discrimination.

Cultural appropriation leads to great, awesome, powerful art but it certainly could take place in a different manner.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #119 on: February 28, 2015, 04:16:50 PM »

Musically she's fine. Her beats are good. The production is good. She raps fine.

I have no idea why people say she can't rap. I guess they're trying to take a cop out position, they don't want to talk about cultural appropriation so instead they throw their hands up and say "she just sucks cus she can't rap!"

What exactly is bad about her rap? She says lots of words fast and rhythmically and she does it on most of her tracks. She's not like a lot of rappers who only rap a single verse and it's very slow, or only show up on the chorus, which is usually barely rapping.

Her rapping is objectively not good.
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« Reply #120 on: February 28, 2015, 07:12:09 PM »


I don't and I feel much better.
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« Reply #121 on: March 01, 2015, 02:40:30 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2015, 03:28:45 AM by Sawx, King in the North »


I wish. Mama Sawx plays her around the house. Like I don't even think about this cultural appropropriaton stuff. I just hate sh8t music
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Beet
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« Reply #122 on: March 01, 2015, 05:45:26 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2015, 05:57:58 AM by Beet »

I have many thoughts about Iggy Azalea and cultural appropriation, here are some of them:

Iggy Azalea is terrible. Her rapping is derivative, the beats she uses are derivative etc. She's popular because of her image rather than her music. There's no shortage of female rappers in hip-hop. There's a shortage of marketable female rappers in hip-hop. It's not a coincidence that there are very few black female rappers in the mainstream. It's a reflection of racism and sexism.

Yes, the award for top female rap artist apparently hasn't even been given out since 2004.

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Not really, given that this is one of the most common charges about Iggy, it would be surprising if it didn't come up. You clearly have a lot of thoughts about it, as do many others on the forum.

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Sure, but no one approves of plagiarism in any form. Adding the dimension of culture to it changes the dynamics and sometimes makes it worse, but sometimes makes plagiarism almost impossible, as well. If you're trying to plagiarize an entire culture using elements already widely known to be associated with that culture, then it's also impossible to hide what you're doing.

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I sort of agree with you, but then I don't think Iggy's disavowals are really that threatening because hip-hop is obviously associated with black culture and regardless of what she says the association is firmly entrenched to the extent that it would take decades to change- and even then, it's origins by American blacks are too well known ever to be swept away. And the stuff that Iggy does is obviously hip hop and so it's obviously standing on the shoulders of the Black community- I mean, T.I. seems to be the one who gave her her break, so she literally might not have her career without him. Whether she or Macklemore specifically say this or not is much, much less important, IMO, than their actual art.

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I agree with this.

As for Simfan's comment, I don't it should really be dismissed with a "that's obvious." Such a basic statement as "how cultures form" is the subject of entire academic disciplines... but more to the point here, the implications of his statement are complex and have implications for power, andI've never seen any social justice person who complains about cultural appropriation really grapple with that side of the equation, besides simply saying stuff like, "I never said white people can't do X Y Z".
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2015, 05:37:20 PM »


I sort of agree with you, but then I don't think Iggy's disavowals are really that threatening because hip-hop is obviously associated with black culture and regardless of what she says the association is firmly entrenched to the extent that it would take decades to change- and even then, it's origins by American blacks are too well known ever to be swept away. And the stuff that Iggy does is obviously hip hop and so it's obviously standing on the shoulders of the Black community- I mean, T.I. seems to be the one who gave her her break, so she literally might not have her career without him. Whether she or Macklemore specifically say this or not is much, much less important, IMO, than their actual art.


Again, this is just a case of intersectionalists wanting White people to apologize for being White every time they do anything.

Iggy Azalea can rap but only if she acknowledges that rap was invited by Black people? Everyone knows rap was invited by Black people. Azalea knows that and she does not try to claim otherwise.

Frankly she was too soft on Q-tip, his comments were insulting. Everyone said he "schooled her" as if she was unaware rap is Black thing.

It's really bizarre that intersectionalists simultaneously accuse her of "trying to be Black" and not admitting that Black people invited rap.
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« Reply #124 on: March 03, 2015, 12:51:01 AM »

Again, this is just a case of intersectionalists wanting White people to apologize for being White every time they do anything.

Iggy Azalea can rap but only if she acknowledges that rap was invited by Black people? Everyone knows rap was invited by Black people. Azalea knows that and she does not try to claim otherwise.

Frankly she was too soft on Q-tip, his comments were insulting. Everyone said he "schooled her" as if she was unaware rap is Black thing.

It's really bizarre that intersectionalists simultaneously accuse her of "trying to be Black" and not admitting that Black people invited rap.

bruh.
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