1988 Primaries
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  1988 Primaries
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Poll
Question: This could be interesting
#1
Democratic Alliance: President Howard Metzenbaum of Ohio
 
#2
Democratic Alliance: Former Senator Gary Hart of Colorado
 
#3
Democratic Alliance: Senator Al Gore of Tennessee
 
#4
Democratic Alliance: Senator Paul Simon of Illinois
 
#5
Democratic Alliance: Reverend Jesse Jackson of South Carolina
 
#6
American Union: Congressman Jack Kemp of New York
 
#7
American Union: Former Governor Pierre S. du Pont IV of Delaware
 
#8
American Union: Senator Bob Dole of Kansas
 
#9
American Union: Governor Thomas Kean of New Jersey
 
#10
American Union: Minister Pat Robertson of Virginia
 
#11
American Union: Congressman Ron Paul of Texas
 
#12
American Union: Congressman James Traficant of Ohio
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 45

Author Topic: 1988 Primaries  (Read 1241 times)
PPT Spiral
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« on: February 22, 2015, 07:48:36 PM »

Following the death of the popular and accomplished President Frank Church, Howard Metzenbaum took center stage and was able to benefit from voters’ sympathy for the 1984 election, holding modest leads throughout the year over his opponent Barry Goldwater Jr. As expected, he won pretty comfortably and had the next four years to push his agenda through. Unlike his predecessor and former boss, however, Metzenbaum would turn out to be much more polarizing and less fortunate. Known as a staunch partisan, President Metzembaum’s attention-grabbing combative style earned him many enemies on the opposite side who were less willing to cooperate. The president pushed for bold proposals that were considered doomed from the start, including a massive hike in the corporate income tax and a universal healthcare program. Perhaps the most controversial aspect of his term was the advocacy of an assault weapons ban, hitting a cultural nerve and sparking outrage across the country, which would soon also be shot down by Congress. Despite these many setbacks, the president did have some accomplishments that were near and dear to his heart, such as sweeping new antitrust regulations and new laws on workers’ safety.

Foreign policy would not be Metzenbaum’s strong suit. The president made international headlines after publicly mulling over the assassination of Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi, and his more hardliner approach to the Soviet Union after a decade of Taft and Church caused concern that the worst may be yet to come. As America’s first fully Jewish president (Barry Goldwater’s half-Jewishness was not discussed much), Metzenbaum also fostered stronger relations with the state of Israel than ever before. As President Metzenbaum was gearing up for reelection, the stock market crash of 1987 sent the economy plunging again and his popularity continued to suffer. Unlike 1984, the president now faces significant opposition from his party with broad themes that he is too radical, too ineffectual, too histrionic, or all three combined. Gary Hart, Al Gore, and Paul Simon are all presenting themselves as less offensive alternatives to Metzenbaum who can achieve more in office. Jesse Jackson is the only candidate more left-wing than the president and is bound to also make an impact. Meanwhile, the AU has a crowded field of candidates. Jack Kemp is running again and is assumed to be the frontrunner, but others like Bob Dole and Tom Kean are trying to become the establishment favorite. Other candidates in the mix include televangelist Pat Robertson, 1984 VP nominee Pete du Pont, libertarian Ron Paul, and the all-around eccentric Jim Traficant. Finally, it should be noted that the WP officially dissolved following the arrest of de facto leader Lyndon LaRouche for tax evasion, bringing an end to a once mighty party.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 08:16:23 PM »
« Edited: February 23, 2015, 08:13:25 AM by L.D. Smith, Knight of Appalachia »

Hoo boy, it appears Metzenbaum has ended up ineffective.

Gore, Simon or Jackson all seem better,...so I'm going with Gore.

Gore/Tsongas methinks
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Goldwater
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 08:16:49 PM »

Kemp!
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Maxwell
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2015, 08:52:58 PM »

Kemp/Kean
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 08:55:55 PM »

Hoo boy, it appears Metzenbaum has ended up ineffective.

Gore, Simon or Jackson all seem better,...so I'm going with Gore.

This, though I appreciate the anti-trust legislation.

Hopefully, with a united left, the DA will be able to continue its winning streak!
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 09:58:05 PM »

All we are saying... is give Gore a chance!
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VPH
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 10:38:16 PM »

There should be a surprise effort to bring back the Worker's party. I'm totally thinking Perot comes in here.
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 10:42:42 PM »

There should be a surprise effort to bring back the Worker's party. I'm totally thinking Perot comes in here.

Without giving out too much away, I do intend to include Perot in upcoming elections. What role he has in shaping the party system depends on how well he does (particularly if he manages to win).
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 11:18:27 PM »

Metzenbaum!
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 01:43:48 AM »

 
There should be a surprise effort to bring back the Worker's party. I'm totally thinking Perot comes in here.

Without giving out too much away, I do intend to include Perot in upcoming elections. What role he has in shaping the party system depends on how well he does (particularly if he manages to win).

Thing is, after '68...the Worker's Party pretty much was just the New Deal Coalition of Democrats who didn't jump all the way to the crazy social left. They were the Populist (as in anti-libertarian) party.

Perot was libertarian incarnate.




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Goldwater
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 01:54:42 AM »

There should be a surprise effort to bring back the Worker's party. I'm totally thinking Perot comes in here.

Without giving out too much away, I do intend to include Perot in upcoming elections. What role he has in shaping the party system depends on how well he does (particularly if he manages to win).

Thing is, after '68...the Worker's Party pretty much was just the New Deal Coalition of Democrats who didn't jump all the way to the crazy social left. They were the Populist (as in anti-libertarian) party.

Perot was libertarian incarnate.






He is? I've never really thought of him as one...
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 01:59:33 AM »
« Edited: February 23, 2015, 02:08:29 AM by L.D. Smith, Knight of Appalachia »

There should be a surprise effort to bring back the Worker's party. I'm totally thinking Perot comes in here.

Without giving out too much away, I do intend to include Perot in upcoming elections. What role he has in shaping the party system depends on how well he does (particularly if he manages to win).

Thing is, after '68...the Worker's Party pretty much was just the New Deal Coalition of Democrats who didn't jump all the way to the crazy social left. They were the Populist (as in anti-libertarian) party.

Perot seemed libertarian incarnate.






He is? I've never really thought of him as one...

Fixed (guess it's all perspective)

Point is, I just don't think Perot quite fits the mold of pre-LaRouche WP, he seems to be kinda his own thing.


Okay okay, this is a crazy development. Yesterday Kemp was leading AU decisively, now it's a crazy battle between Kemp and Paul.

And as for DA, it seems the Populists, Centrists, Hollings' '84 and Environment-first lefties have all gathered around Gore, while the rest of the left are divided between keeping Metzenbaum or someone other than Gore/Metzenbaum.

This is the first incumbent challenge of serious caliber since '72 when RFK proved ineffective and barely survived a challenge from McCarthy. The damage was done then, and it could be now too.
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 02:04:08 AM »

Perot was very much a populist of his own kind. Given his support of economic nationalism, expanding the War on Drugs, and strengthening gun control as a few things, it's not very accurate to call him a libertarian just because he supported balanced budgets. He was harder to place on the spectrum.
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 02:12:24 AM »

Paul!
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Grumpier Than Thou
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 11:15:58 AM »

Al Gore, probably.
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2015, 12:16:38 PM »

Remember that at this point, Gore was basically a Southern conservative.  He opposed federal funding for abortion, opposed gun control, supported school prayer, opposed LGBT rights (and said he'd refuse to accept any donations from gay rights groups), etc.  Metzenbaum may've had a rough first term, but at least he's fighting the good fight.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2015, 01:59:43 PM »

Remember that at this point, Gore was basically a Southern conservative.  He opposed federal funding for abortion, opposed gun control, supported school prayer, opposed LGBT rights (and said he'd refuse to accept any donations from gay rights groups), etc.  Metzenbaum may've had a rough first term, but at least he's fighting the good fight.
That's real life though. Couldn't things be different in this TL?

In theory sure, but it doesn't seem like anything has happened that would cause them to be different.
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2015, 02:05:41 PM »

Gore isn't too different from his RL counterpart at this point, and neither is anybody else running right now. Gore is running as a moderate who would achieve results as opposed to the bombastic but lacking Metzenbaum.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2015, 02:16:25 PM »

Even Buchanan could take control of the smouldering wreck of the 2000 Reform party so I think it's realistic for the reincarnation of the Worker's party to be much different than its pre-LaRouche state. In this scenario Perot's money and recognition could easily let him win their nomination in a bid to revive the party, even if he isn't a good fit for them.

As for the primaries: I voted for the incumbent president.

Edit: Now that I see the results, I'm hoping for a Metzenbaum vs. Paul showdown.
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2015, 02:20:37 PM »

Edit: Now that I see the results, I'm hoping for a Metzenbaum vs. Paul showdown.

The most fascinating scenario would be if Jackson and Paul both are nominated. It'll get really messy then.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2015, 03:32:55 PM »
« Edited: February 23, 2015, 03:38:15 PM by L.D. Smith, Knight of Appalachia »

Even Buchanan could take control of the smouldering wreck of the 2000 Reform party so I think it's realistic for the reincarnation of the Worker's party to be much different than its pre-LaRouche state. In this scenario Perot's money and recognition could easily let him win their nomination in a bid to revive the party, even if he isn't a good fit for them.

As for the primaries: I voted for the incumbent president.

Edit: Now that I see the results, I'm hoping for a Metzenbaum vs. Paul showdown.

Reform Party was fledgling party lost without Perot and vulnerable to nearly any figure it could get.


The Worker's Party was a party that was all but doomed the moment Wallace was nominated in '64, and had RFK not turned out incompetent, '68 would've been it.

But RFK gave 'em a chance,...and that left them with two chances. One victim a split left of doom, and one left to the same artificial turf that IRL '76 gave for Dems in the South with Carter. And even then, even with DA being the party of RFK the Useless and Taft's low ratings....it still wasn't enough.




As for Gore, he's probably huge on education and environmental reform and technological advances. And if anything like real life still, he will probably shift leftwards...especially if given a leftist running mate such as  former Sen. Paul Tsongas or one of the last California governors (Jerry Brown or Tom Bradley, the latter of whom probably defeated Deukmeijian just because of climate.).

All of these factors make a slightly rightward trend here forgivable
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2015, 04:10:22 PM »

Even Buchanan could take control of the smouldering wreck of the 2000 Reform party so I think it's realistic for the reincarnation of the Worker's party to be much different than its pre-LaRouche state. In this scenario Perot's money and recognition could easily let him win their nomination in a bid to revive the party, even if he isn't a good fit for them.

As for the primaries: I voted for the incumbent president.

Edit: Now that I see the results, I'm hoping for a Metzenbaum vs. Paul showdown.

Reform Party was fledgling party lost without Perot and vulnerable to nearly any figure it could get.


The Worker's Party was a party that was all but doomed the moment Wallace was nominated in '64, and had RFK not turned out incompetent, '68 would've been it.

But RFK gave 'em a chance,...and that left them with two chances. One victim a split left of doom, and one left to the same artificial turf that IRL '76 gave for Dems in the South with Carter. And even then, even with DA being the party of RFK the Useless and Taft's low ratings....it still wasn't enough.




As for Gore, he's probably huge on education and environmental reform and technological advances. And if anything like real life still, he will probably shift leftwards...especially if given a leftist running mate such as  former Sen. Paul Tsongas or one of the last California governors (Jerry Brown or Tom Bradley, the latter of whom probably defeated Deukmeijian just because of climate.).

All of these factors make a slightly rightward trend here forgivable

Why would a left-leaning runningmate make him flip-flop on most social issues?  Also Brown is still in his weird anti-tax conservative phase and Tsongas really isn't all that liberal IIRC.  Tom Bradley lost because of racism more than anything else.  If anything, I could see Gore picking a liberal runningmate in an attempt to appease the left which would likely regard him with considerable suspicion.
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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2015, 04:38:33 PM »

Progressive Paul

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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2015, 11:27:02 PM »

Gore
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2015, 05:33:48 PM »

Looks like Ron Paul and Jack Kemp are practically neck and neck....certainly didn't see that coming.

Nor did I expect Gore to actually maintain a lead this huge over Metzenbaum.
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