Nevermore shall we hear the plaintive call of 'Reluctant Nay' (user search)
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  Nevermore shall we hear the plaintive call of 'Reluctant Nay' (search mode)
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Author Topic: Nevermore shall we hear the plaintive call of 'Reluctant Nay'  (Read 3865 times)
Simfan34
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*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« on: February 24, 2015, 11:20:26 AM »


Is this about Yankee? If so, you are a terrible person.

I would not say so. As conservatives, we needed someone, at that critical juncture, to stand up for the basic principles of free enterprise, the market economy, and pure fiscal sanity. For him to have signalled "reluctance" in opposing the ludicrous piece of legislation that was the Fuel and Power Act was tantamount to saying that his support of those principles was equally ambivalent.

I have have long had great respect for Yankee and his service, and I thank him for it, but the fact is that it had simply become too milquetoast, both in the Senate and as leader of the Federalists, who now are, and I don't think anyone would deny this, interminably moribund. Regardless, I doubt we will see anyone who will come close to his political longevity- and he managed to survive Operation Cottonfield, mind you- any time soon, if ever. I wish him the best.
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Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 03:46:58 PM »

Wrong. I stated explicitly what I wanted and my reluctance was because I hated the fact that I could not change the bill into that with the votes that were available. I wanted a system of market competing non-profits, not nationalization. The only way you can think that I was ambivalent on the free market requires that you ignore what I have stated publically then and subsequently. Nice try, Simmy, but it ain't happening. Tongue Roll Eyes

I have never denied that I have some pro-labor sympathies, so does Hagrid ironically by the way or at least he did. So in that once sense don't expect much to change in terms of the Southern Senator.

I admit that I may have overlooked some of your proposals, but I do recall your proposal to replace the present electricity sector with a system of non-profit enterprises, which I thought was still very much a solution to a problem that did not exist, even if it was a (considerably) less harmful solution than what was being proposed. Regardless, it was to me a matter of principle- opposing the nationalisation of industries for the mere sake of nationalising them, as was the only real reason given for that bill, was something that had to be opposed and opposed uncompromisingly lest we start heading down such a path. You may have considered it to have had lower stakes, but- again as far as I was concerned- it was absolutely pivotal.

Hamilton said the same thing half way through my first Senate term. Tongue I always separated my service in the Senate from leadership of the Party and I have never been an ideological hack. I also know full well what it means to be dirt poor and thus haven't been afraid to compromise on some economic issues where I know markets alone won't cut it.

This comes as a surprise to me; I would think it impossible to separate one's service in office to the image they were able to project as a partisan leader. You were the face of the Federalists by default, at least that's how I saw it. Hence why I was appalled by your remarks during the debate on the Fuel and Power bill: it created (or frankly, merely reinforced) the impression that the Federalists were not an effective opposition to the Administration.

I don't think it's a matter of being an ideologue or not being an ideologue- it's understanding what the basic principles of a party are and communicating that effectively. It's steering the course of events as to not allow an actual ideologue who just re-registered to nearly successfully primary a popular incumbent President. It's not putting a party into a position where it is compelled to nominate a candidate despite the majority of present members having voted not to nominate that candidate. I don't mean to berate you- I sincerely do have a great deal of respect for you and think that you have probably put in more and contributed more to Atlasia than anyone else over the years- but these were my concerns.

Simfan, I dont remember, for who have you voted this election?

Bore/BK, but I'm not sure why this is relevant. I voted for Bore not only because I thought he was the most qualified candidate, but that unlike JCL's loonyism and the de facto fellow traveller Dallasfan's record, Bore would do the most to advance- even if I really mean "be the least harmful to"- the ideas in which I believe.
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Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 06:12:20 PM »

Simfan, I dont remember, for who have you voted this election?

Bore/BK, but I'm not sure why this is relevant. I voted for Bore not only because I thought he was the most qualified candidate, but that unlike JCL's loonyism and the de facto fellow traveller Dallasfan's record, Bore would do the most to advance- even if I really mean "be the least harmful to"- the ideas in which I believe.

Thank you. I just didn't understand why you voted for him. But you're right he's less socially liberal than dallasfan. Now it makes sense.

It is much of the same reason that you gave when you tried to get me to vote for you and DemPGH, if you might recall. Tongue
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Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 08:13:18 PM »

I think it's funny Simfan is pulling the card of "Yankee doesn't stand up for our principles" when Simfan likely votes more often for candidates outside of his own ideological background than he does for those within it.

How many candidates are there that come from my "ideological background" in the first place?
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Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 10:55:15 PM »
« Edited: September 22, 2016, 01:40:24 PM by Simfan34 »

I think it's funny Simfan is pulling the card of "Yankee doesn't stand up for our principles" when Simfan likely votes more often for candidates outside of his own ideological background than he does for those within it.

How many candidates are there that come from my "ideological background" in the first place?

You can dress it up in nuance all you like, but you're a right-winger: there are plenty.

Of course I'm a right-winger. That doesn't oblige me to vote for JCL.
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