Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin
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  Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin
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Author Topic: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin  (Read 1866 times)
pbrower2a
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« on: February 26, 2015, 02:32:18 AM »

  MADISON, Wis. -- Spelling more trouble for organized labor in the U.S., Republican legislators in the Wisconsin state Senate approved a right-to-work bill here on Wednesday, sending the measure to a GOP-controlled Assembly where it's also expected to pass. Republican leaders chose to fast-track the bill in what's known as an extraordinary legislative session, allowing for less debate than usual.

Debate over the bill drew thousands of protesters to the state Capitol on Tuesday and Wednesday, reminiscent of the passionate labor demonstrations surrounding Act 10 in 2011. But as with that earlier legislation, which stripped most collective bargaining rights from public-sector employees, vocal opposition from the state's unions wasn't enough to stop the right-to-work bill in its tracks.

Legislators are expected to take up the measure early next week in the state Assembly, where Republicans enjoy a comfortable majority. The office of Gov. Scott Walker (R) has already said he will sign the bill if it reaches his desk.

The fight in Madison is just the latest indication of how state Republican leaders, often controlling both the statehouse and the governor's mansion in their respective states, are managing to enact laws that weaken the clout of organized labor. If the Wisconsin measure is approved, the Badger State will become the 25th right-to-work state in the country, following two other Midwestern states, Michigan and Indiana, that passed such laws in 2012.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/25/wisconsin-right-to-work-bill_n_6752750.html
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 02:37:47 AM »

This is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

But the Republicans don't learn, because there are no consequences.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 03:59:31 AM »

More proof that both parties are the same.

#Nader2016
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SWE
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 06:25:17 AM »

Because Republicans love 'samll government!'
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 10:50:05 AM »

Because Republicans love 'samll government!'

They want a return to the Gilded Age ethos in the North and the Plantation ethos in the South -- government that facilitates the will of economic elites and has the power to crush all opposition to such.

The only good thing about the GOP is that it has yet to form private, politicized militias to do the dirty work.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 11:02:39 AM »

The only good thing about the GOP is that it has yet to form private, politicized militias to do the dirty work.

Didn't they have a private militia take over Bunkerville during the Cliven Bundy standoff?
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 01:56:24 PM »

Well, Wisconsin gets what they voted for Sad

But the Republicans don't learn, because there are no consequences.
What haven't they learned, exactly?

If anything, they've learned that they can do crap like this, and while there will be initial hostility, they'll still get re-elected.
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Beet
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 02:29:49 PM »

It sounds like people are jealous that union workers make more and get plum benefits, but instead of that inspiring them to see the benefits of unionization for workers and imagine that they, too, might be able to get better working conditions, their answer is to tear down the union worker. Sad.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 03:34:56 PM »

That's the people's champion at work!
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 03:38:39 PM »


This. Also, 50% of states are now right to work. Wonderful.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2015, 04:13:36 PM »


No, the champion of the Master Class.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2015, 04:32:06 PM »

Walker can look forward to doing very poorly in the midwest. With this on his record, he's going to struggle in Ohio if he makes the general.
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OldDominion
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2015, 04:39:36 PM »

Please do tell how workers get the shaft by getting the right to choose whether or not they want to be in a union per a work contract? This is one thing Dems have gone too far to the left on and it is absolutely nuts to say that this is a major issue. It's a choice issue. People should not be mandated to joining a union or association and should never be bullied into paying dues or fees against their conscience. This is coming from a grandson of a NJ Teamster.
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SWE
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 04:42:38 PM »

Please do tell how workers get the shaft by getting the right to choose whether or not they want to be in a union per a work contract? This is one thing Dems have gone too far to the left on and it is absolutely nuts to say that this is a major issue. It's a choice issue. People should not be mandated to joining a union or association and should never be bullied into paying dues or fees against their conscience. This is coming from a grandson of a NJ Teamster.
Right to work literally has nothing to do with letting workers choose to be a union or not. That choice is already protected by federal law.
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OldDominion
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 04:53:12 PM »

Please do tell how workers get the shaft by getting the right to choose whether or not they want to be in a union per a work contract? This is one thing Dems have gone too far to the left on and it is absolutely nuts to say that this is a major issue. It's a choice issue. People should not be mandated to joining a union or association and should never be bullied into paying dues or fees against their conscience. This is coming from a grandson of a NJ Teamster.
Right to work literally has nothing to do with letting workers choose to be a union or not. That choice is already protected by federal law.
So this definition is inaccurate then? "A "right-to-work" law is a statute in the United States that prohibits union security agreements, or agreements between labor unions and employers, that govern the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring." As for Taft-Hartley, I know about that law.

This goes to contractual stipulation. Whether workers are tied by union enforced clauses in a contract with an employer or government to have their members work solely via association with that union - hence dues, etc. That should be optional.

As unions as a peaceable assembly per Am. 1, yes, they are but amount to assemblies of speech. Unions tying the hands of companies via almost damn near extortion is another thing and should not be protected. This is where the far left gets confused.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2015, 04:54:13 PM »

Walker can look forward to doing very poorly in the midwest. With this on his record, he's going to struggle in Ohio if he makes the general.

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krazen1211
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2015, 04:58:57 PM »


No, the champion of the Master Class.

You know that he won the election, right?
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Beet
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 05:07:50 PM »

It's Right to Work laws that tie the hands of companies. They prohibit companies from entering into agreements they might otherwise enter into.

Unions have nothing to do with assemblies of speech. The purpose of a union is to equalize the bargaining power of employees with that of employers. You or I or anyone is free to, for example, apply for a job at Microsoft, but we would be one individual negotiating for his sole income against a multi-billion dollar corporation, a negotiating disadvantage. If all the employees of Microsoft could organize, just as Microsoft itself is organized, then it would be two equally balanced entities negotiating a single contract, rather than thousands of very unequal entities negotiating thousands of contracts. What "organization" means is a way to overcome the collective action problem. This is inseparable from enforcing that all employees must be members of the union. In other words, this is the whole point of the union.

If you want a Right to Work law, I want a Right to Donate law. The website Kickstarter is in gross violation of the Right to Donate. They allow people to set up projects that I can only donate to, if I pay Kickstarter a fee and so do all the other donors. I can only donate to these projects through Kickstarter - essentially by signing an enforced agreement with Kickstarter. That should be optional. We're just a group of people who want to peaceably assemble and give away money. Why can't we do that? Kickstarter should be illegal.
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OldDominion
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 05:16:55 PM »

Kickstarter should not be illegal - you are using something as an example that has little relevance but adds to my point. If one wants to donate, why not donate directly and bypass middlemen that take part of your money? Would it not be better to donate 100% of the funds to the charity as opposed to say 80 or 90% minus overhead? So this example of tantamount to the union one in that people should be allowed to work and do work without being taken for that extra percentage regardless of whether they are union or not. Additionally, collective bargaining, if done correctly and not via coercive tactics would still work and the action done would still be for the good.

As for the MS example, no they, and any company that values successful growth, should only employ on merit not if the employee can make enough friends to force his or her prospects. So in that example's regard, why should governments force the employment of promote said employment over someone that is more ably qualified and/or experienced? They should not.
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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 05:24:00 PM »

The experiment pushes on...

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Beet
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 05:25:15 PM »

Kickstarter should not be illegal - you are using something as an example that has little relevance but adds to my point. If one wants to donate, why not donate directly and bypass middlemen that take part of your money? Would it not be better to donate 100% of the funds to the charity as opposed to say 80 or 90% minus overhead?

Okay, so why does anyone donate to Kickstarter?

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How would one do collective bargaining without 'coercive tactics'?

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Who said anything about governments enforcing or promoting anything? What Microsoft does should be up to Microsoft. They should be allowed to run their hiring policies how they want with regard to collective bargaining. That's my position.
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OldDominion
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 05:45:11 PM »

Okay, so why does anyone donate to Kickstarter?

They see it as an easier alternative but it still is a middleman. Why donate to KS for say WWP when I can go to http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ and donate directly?

How would one do collective bargaining without 'coercive tactics'?

Utilizing fair arguments and business acumen.

Who said anything about governments enforcing or promoting anything? What Microsoft does should be up to Microsoft. They should be allowed to run their hiring policies how they want with regard to collective bargaining. That's my position.

On this we agree but some might say the govt should do more to regulate or enforce how the private sector manages hires, specifically in regard to skill, race, experience, etc.
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Beet
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 05:52:53 PM »

They see it as an easier alternative but it still is a middleman

Why do they see it as an easier alternative?

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Why do you need a union to do that? I can think of fair arguments and develop business acumen myself.

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What does collective bargaining have to do with my race? I don't care about the race of my coworkers. I can collectively bargain together equally with blacks, whites, or hispanics.
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OldDominion
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2015, 05:59:06 PM »

Why do they see it as an easier alternative?

It's a centralized donation site.

Why do you need a union to do that? I can think of fair arguments and develop business acumen myself.

Members feel it makes their voices stronger (c.b.) but the tactics by union leaders is my point.

What does collective bargaining have to do with my race? I don't care about the race of my coworkers. I can collectively bargain together equally with blacks, whites, or hispanics.

For this one, there have been instances that due to race, gender, or socio-economic background, potential hires are not hired - the liberal outrage on this one has been vast. Sure you can cb with different people but that was not my point.
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Beet
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2015, 06:04:07 PM »

This has been an interesting discussion but it's time to say you don't know what you're talking about, and my clumsy attempts to lead you in the right direction aren't being met by very much success... it shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out where I was going with my questions, if you do a little reading... But that's all for now.
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