A question about the opponents of gay marriage

[The Arizonan]

We all know that there are still people in America that don't want gay marriage to be legal.

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

And how does two guys or two gals being married even affect other people's marriages?

[TJ in Oregon]

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

From the perspective of Christianity, there are a couple different types of commands in the Old Testament: those pertaining to morality in general and those pertaining to the Mosaic Law that only apply to Jews. The reason why Christians are okay with eating shellfish is the same as the reason why Christianity doesn't require circumcision. Both are Jewish practices rather than universal moral truths.

[MaxQue]

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

From the perspective of Christianity, there are a couple different types of commands in the Old Testament: those pertaining to morality in general and those pertaining to the Mosaic Law that only apply to Jews. The reason why Christians are okay with eating shellfish is the same as the reason why Christianity doesn't require circumcision. Both are Jewish practices rather than universal moral truths.

And it's total nonsense, since there is no objective way of saying which belongs to which category. That's literally handpicking what you want and don't want in the Bible.

[TJ in Oregon]

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

From the perspective of Christianity, there are a couple different types of commands in the Old Testament: those pertaining to morality in general and those pertaining to the Mosaic Law that only apply to Jews. The reason why Christians are okay with eating shellfish is the same as the reason why Christianity doesn't require circumcision. Both are Jewish practices rather than universal moral truths.

And it's total nonsense, since there is no objective way of saying which belongs to which category. That's literally handpicking what you want and don't want in the Bible.

That was decided before most of the New Testament was written (see the Council of Jerusalem). Christianity decided not to follow the Mosaic Law pertaining to Jewish customs right from the start.

[The Arizonan]

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

From the perspective of Christianity, there are a couple different types of commands in the Old Testament: those pertaining to morality in general and those pertaining to the Mosaic Law that only apply to Jews. The reason why Christians are okay with eating shellfish is the same as the reason why Christianity doesn't require circumcision. Both are Jewish practices rather than universal moral truths.

And it's total nonsense, since there is no objective way of saying which belongs to which category. That's literally handpicking what you want and don't want in the Bible.

That was decided before most of the New Testament was written (see the Council of Jerusalem). Christianity decided not to follow the Mosaic Law pertaining to Jewish customs right from the start.

If I've gotten this straight, Christians are potentially disobeying God if they don't follow Jewish law.

[TJ in Oregon]

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

From the perspective of Christianity, there are a couple different types of commands in the Old Testament: those pertaining to morality in general and those pertaining to the Mosaic Law that only apply to Jews. The reason why Christians are okay with eating shellfish is the same as the reason why Christianity doesn't require circumcision. Both are Jewish practices rather than universal moral truths.

And it's total nonsense, since there is no objective way of saying which belongs to which category. That's literally handpicking what you want and don't want in the Bible.

That was decided before most of the New Testament was written (see the Council of Jerusalem). Christianity decided not to follow the Mosaic Law pertaining to Jewish customs right from the start.

If I've gotten this straight, Christians are potentially disobeying God if they don't follow Jewish law.

Christians believe Jewish law was only for the Jews and that they don't have to follow Jewish law. Granted, a lot of Christ's commands and the others discussed in the New Testament match a lot of parts of Jewish Law. But, no, obviously Christians don't follow Jewish law. I thought everyone knew this...

[DC Al Fine]

We all know that there are still people in America that don't want gay marriage to be legal.

If people are opposing gay marriage just because the Bible says that it's wrong, how come they aren't trying to shut down Red Lobster for serving shellfish (Leviticus says shellfish is unclean) or trying to stop retailers from selling clothes made from more than one type of fabric?

The Mosaic Law was repealed in Paul's epistles with the exception of the moral law which Paul affirms. As TJ noted, this issue was settled within the apostles' lifetime.

And how does two guys or two gals being married even affect other people's marriages?

Your problem here is that you are taking a secular moral framework and asking Christianity to justify itself according to the framework. Christianity rejects the framework altogether.

[DC Al Fine]

This is a silly argument that comes up over and over from people who aren't familiar with the Bible.  That's not to pick on you Arizonan as you aren't being a jerk about this and seem to be asking in good faith.

The claim that Christians are picking and choosing from the Bible because they eat shellfish but oppose gay marriage doesn't make any sense because the prohibition on shellfish was explicitly repealed in Acts 10. Actually, this argument is a pretty good test to see if a critic has no idea what the hell they are talking about.

[Indy Texas]

Maybe a better question is why they should expect everyone else to obey Biblical law.

If gay people getting married and those who support their right to do so are condemned to an eternity in Hell, then that sounds like our problem more than it does yours.

[RFayette]

Maybe a better question is why they should expect everyone else to obey Biblical law.

If gay people getting married and those who support their right to do so are condemned to an eternity in Hell, then that sounds like our problem more than it does yours.

I'm not an Evangelical at all, but I think here's the viewpoint:  fundamentalists think that homosexual acts are sinful according to the moral Biblical law.  Hence, gay marriage is offensive to God.  If they vote for a politician who supports giving legitimacy to this sinful activity by promoting marriage licenses to these couples, they are voting in favor of sin.  Essentially, Evangelicals see pro-gay marriage politicians as people giving "licenses" to sin.  Since Christianity divides people up into "saved" and "unsaved," many people would feel such politicians are "unsaved" because of what they support.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Maybe a better question is why they should expect everyone else to obey Biblical law.

If gay people getting married and those who support their right to do so are condemned to an eternity in Hell, then that sounds like our problem more than it does yours.

Yes, but if I endorsed gay marriage, I would be supporting sin, which is a sin in itself. I draw the line at civil unions not only due to societal tradition and what I feel the purpose of marraige to be, but also out of loyalty to god.

I support some gay marriage supporting politicians (Franken, Braley, Baker, Klobuchar, Heitkamp, Kirkpatrick etc.) because the rest of their platform doesn't suck and because their opposition isn't appealing enough for me. I don't believe I should ruin the world with worse politicians over one issue, and I don't feel that God expects me to do so. But on my views on gay marriage and whether I would vote for a law or referendum allowing it - the bible is clear - I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

[afleitch]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

[bedstuy]

It's kind of irrelevant.

My religion says so is not a valid public policy reason for anything.

We have secular law in the United States.  You can believe that homosexuality is a sin, eating pork is a sin or that music is a sin.  But, you can't ban music, pork or homosexuality because you think God hates those things.  I think that's pretty clear. 

[TDAS04]

Opponent of SSM:  "Allowing the gay couple next door to get married violates my religious freedom."

Observant Jew:  "Allowing my neighbor to eat shrimp with cheese violates my religious freedom."

Observant Catholic:  "Don't allow my neighbor to eat steak on Friday.  It's against my religion."

All three arguments are equally idiotic.

[7,052,770]

A better question is why aren't the opponents of gay marriage also campaigning to prevent divorced people from marrying again?

There's a pretty strong overlap between denominations that restrict marriage to opposite-sex couples and those that make it difficult for people to have a second marriage. Yet you never, ever hear about businesses demanding the "right" to discriminate against remarried people or judges refusing to marry them or people forcing their views on remarriage onto people who don't share those views.

[The Arizonan]

Opponent of SSM:  "Allowing the gay couple next door to get married violates my religious freedom."

Observant Jew:  "Allowing my neighbor to eat shrimp with cheese violates my religious freedom."

Observant Catholic:  "Don't allow my neighbor to eat steak on Friday.  It's against my religion."

All three arguments are equally idiotic.

It's funny that some people that are observant actually think in the manner of those quotes.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

[bedstuy]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Hilarious!

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Hilarious!

Sin is never hilarious. It is filthy and abhorring to the eyes of god and all good christians. No one is perfect and everyone sins sometimes. But it is something that all good christians should strive to avoid.

[SWE]

Wulfric has to be trolling at this point

[Panda Express]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Hilarious!

Sin is never hilarious. It is filthy and abhorring to the eyes of god and all good christians. No one is perfect and everyone sins sometimes. But it is something that all good christians should strive to avoid.

what would you do if your son was gay?

[free my dawg]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Never go full Bushie, dude.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Hilarious!

Sin is never hilarious. It is filthy and abhorring to the eyes of god and all good christians. No one is perfect and everyone sins sometimes. But it is something that all good christians should strive to avoid.

what would you do if your son was gay?

Simply encourage him to submit to god and not enter a gay marriage.

[bedstuy]

I must oppose it, no matter whether I want to or not, or I am going directly against the word of god, which I am always striving to avoid.

If you see married same sex couples, some who have been together for years, decades even and they are caring for each other, supporting each other, nursing each other through illness and death, do you see in that 'sinful acts'?

When my husband was in hospital and I held his hand as he went under general anaesthetic and he came out of it, do you think that was a sinful act? When I changed his bandages and washed his scars was that a sinful act? I did these things because I love him more than I've ever known how to love. Was it the result of 'sinful' lust?

Gay Marriage is a sinful act. Now, caring for someone else is fine, and spousal hospital visitation rights are something  I'd be willing to allow under a civil union.

Homosexuals should be able to resist the urge to enter a full fledged marriage. I don't consider being/acting homosexual, or entering into a civil union that has clear differences from a marriage,  a sin. Caring for homos is not a sin, and I don't support conversion therapy or discrimination against homosexuals in education, employment, or provision of non-wedding-related services.

But once you enter into a full fledged gay marriage, or a gay civil union that is indistinguishable from a gay marriage, you are sinning and should be ashamed.

Hilarious!

Sin is never hilarious. It is filthy and abhorring to the eyes of god and all good christians. No one is perfect and everyone sins sometimes. But it is something that all good christians should strive to avoid.

The Bible doesn't mention gay marriage, right?  It talks about sodomy.  So, it seems like your position makes no sense.  If that's the basis, why not ban sodomy, assuming the Supreme Court is ok with banning sodomy?

And, again,

My religion says so is not a valid public policy reason for anything.

We have secular law in the United States.  You can believe that homosexuality is a sin, eating pork is a sin or that music is a sin.  But, you can't ban music, pork or homosexuality because you think God hates those things.  I think that's pretty clear. 

[free my dawg]

Simply encourage him to submit to god and not enter a gay marriage.