NE2: Stand with the Kurds Act (Passed)
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  NE2: Stand with the Kurds Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: NE2: Stand with the Kurds Act (Passed)  (Read 1262 times)
Blair
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« on: March 01, 2015, 04:24:47 AM »
« edited: March 07, 2015, 02:49:13 AM by Speaker Blair »

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Sponser: Blair, I have 36 hours to advocate this bill
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 12:43:16 PM »

I support this, I think we need to support the Kurds in their struggle against IS. Smiley

On a somewhat related note, I feel action needs to be done to prevent any of the Muslim community in the North East region (and Atlasia as a whole) from being influenced by IS - to prevent a major incident in the country. Maybe an increased police presence on the streets could help counter this and a ban to any IS videos on TV and online?
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Blair
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 12:56:47 PM »

I proposed this bill to really confirm what TNF was saying in the Senate, his original bill has got clogged down and been virtually stripped of any value before Bore managed to get the PKK mentioned in it again.

I don't want to deal with IS or domestic terror in this bill, purely because it's a different subject and I feel the bill I proposed already came close to breaking the idea that we leave foreign policy to the Senate. Clyde, I encourage you to propose something in the legislation thread then we can discuss it further Smiley
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 01:16:29 PM »

I don't want to deal with IS or domestic terror in this bill, purely because it's a different subject and I feel the bill I proposed already came close to breaking the idea that we leave foreign policy to the Senate. Clyde, I encourage you to propose something in the legislation thread then we can discuss it further Smiley
I'll wait for the currently proposed bills to be voted on before proposing something else. Also, I can completely understand separating the two issues. Smiley
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Blair
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 01:58:04 PM »

I don't want to deal with IS or domestic terror in this bill, purely because it's a different subject and I feel the bill I proposed already came close to breaking the idea that we leave foreign policy to the Senate. Clyde, I encourage you to propose something in the legislation thread then we can discuss it further Smiley
I'll wait for the currently proposed bills to be voted on before proposing something else. Also, I can completely understand separating the two issues. Smiley

Feel free to post it in here, we often have a backlog

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=127652.600
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2015, 03:14:51 PM »

Correct, we cannot be making foreign policy decisions.

This bill, however, simply confirms our solidarity, as an Assembly, with the Kurds in their struggle against ISIS.  That has my full support.

One point of clarification, regarding the flying of the Kurdish flag on a designated day, I assume this means on one designated day, and not on an annual basis.  Is that correct?

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Blair
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2015, 03:31:18 PM »

Correct, we cannot be making foreign policy decisions.

This bill, however, simply confirms our solidarity, as an Assembly, with the Kurds in their struggle against ISIS.  That has my full support.

One point of clarification, regarding the flying of the Kurdish flag on a designated day, I assume this means on one designated day, and not on an annual basis.  Is that correct?



Yes, it would be on a designated day this year, and not an annual basis. This would be open for review, but if we make it annual then we're going to have to get 365 different flags
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2015, 04:15:31 PM »

Correct, we cannot be making foreign policy decisions.

This bill, however, simply confirms our solidarity, as an Assembly, with the Kurds in their struggle against ISIS.  That has my full support.

One point of clarification, regarding the flying of the Kurdish flag on a designated day, I assume this means on one designated day, and not on an annual basis.  Is that correct?



Yes, it would be on a designated day this year, and not an annual basis. This would be open for review, but if we make it annual then we're going to have to get 365 different flags

I fail to see your reasoning that we would have to have 365 different flags to fly a flag once a year.

Anyway, this event, the flying of the Kurdish flag, should be a one time only event.
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Blair
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 04:33:25 PM »

Correct, we cannot be making foreign policy decisions.

This bill, however, simply confirms our solidarity, as an Assembly, with the Kurds in their struggle against ISIS.  That has my full support.

One point of clarification, regarding the flying of the Kurdish flag on a designated day, I assume this means on one designated day, and not on an annual basis.  Is that correct?



Yes, it would be on a designated day this year, and not an annual basis. This would be open for review, but if we make it annual then we're going to have to get 365 different flags

I fail to see your reasoning that we would have to have 365 different flags to fly a flag once a year.

Anyway, this event, the flying of the Kurdish flag, should be a one time only event.

if we did set it annually I basically meant that we'd have to put a host of other flags annually as well, were in fact flag flying is generally reactionary.

But yeah we agree on when it should be flown
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2015, 04:49:52 PM »

I propose that we choose 21st March - as it's 'Newroz'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newroz_as_celebrated_by_Kurds
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 04:57:34 PM »


Sounds good to me.
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pikachu
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2015, 05:53:25 PM »

I'm fine with the bill in its present form. Assuming there are no more major changes in the Kurdish bill in the Senate, I'll support this.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2015, 09:17:40 PM »

Yes, March 21 is a good date for this flag flying event.
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Blair
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 03:32:15 PM »

everything appears good with this bill. I'm happy to open voting early if that's okay with everyone?
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Lumine
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 05:06:54 PM »

I don't wish to interrupt as I am not a Northeast citizen, but should a regional assembly really concern itself with foreign policy? (Especially by trying to lobby the pass of the Kurdish Solidarity Act) It's a mostly symbolic effort, yes, but it is quite unorthodox.
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Blair
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 05:19:15 PM »

I don't wish to interrupt as I am not a Northeast citizen, but should a regional assembly really concern itself with foreign policy? (Especially by trying to lobby the pass of the Kurdish Solidarity Act) It's a mostly symbolic effort, yes, but it is quite unorthodox.

Mr President, I said at the beginning that I knew this bill was close to line but I feel that it doesn't bridge the gap into foreign policy. I believe it fits into the 1980's model, and that recently where many local councils, and authorities flew the Palestinian Flag and opposed Apartheid despite the weak actions of their National Government. The line between foreign and domestic is increasingly blurred

The motion is simply showing the Kurdish people in the Northeast that the Assembly stands beside them,and supports their dream fro state. I knew when I proposed it that it was unorthodox, but I felt something needed to be done in light of the slow action of our own government.
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Lumine
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2015, 08:33:06 PM »

I don't wish to interrupt as I am not a Northeast citizen, but should a regional assembly really concern itself with foreign policy? (Especially by trying to lobby the pass of the Kurdish Solidarity Act) It's a mostly symbolic effort, yes, but it is quite unorthodox.

Mr President, I said at the beginning that I knew this bill was close to line but I feel that it doesn't bridge the gap into foreign policy. I believe it fits into the 1980's model, and that recently where many local councils, and authorities flew the Palestinian Flag and opposed Apartheid despite the weak actions of their National Government. The line between foreign and domestic is increasingly blurred

The motion is simply showing the Kurdish people in the Northeast that the Assembly stands beside them,and supports their dream fro state. I knew when I proposed it that it was unorthodox, but I felt something needed to be done in light of the slow action of our own government.

I do think actions like that have the potential to undermine the foreign policy of an administration (doesn't really matter who's in the White House), but yes, I can understand the motivation behind the bill.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2015, 08:37:54 PM »

I don't wish to interrupt as I am not a Northeast citizen, but should a regional assembly really concern itself with foreign policy? (Especially by trying to lobby the pass of the Kurdish Solidarity Act) It's a mostly symbolic effort, yes, but it is quite unorthodox.

With all due respect, it's fairly common knowledge that our Assembly is incredibly unorthodox.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2015, 10:01:43 PM »

Although I do not believe this bill actually sets foreign policy, but only makes a statement, due to concerns raised about this bill, perhaps we should get a ruling as to rather this bill can legally be introduced and voted on by this Assembly.

Voting should be delayed until a ruling has been obtained.

Does anyone else in the Assembly support me in this proposal?
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2015, 10:19:51 PM »

I would rather not see this slot be in limbo.
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Blair
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 02:12:59 AM »
« Edited: March 04, 2015, 02:17:48 AM by Speaker Blair »

I made every care possible to ensure that this bill didn't cross the line into foreign policy, I'd be happy to amend the lobbying part of the bill out, but otherwise I still think that the bill is fine.

I don't think we should let a President, who is hostile to the theory of a Kurdistan state dictate what the Assembly does. I have strong feelings that he objects this simply because it's strongly supporting the Kurds.

It would take too long for a ruling, I'd rather the administration challenge it after it's been passed

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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2015, 10:53:26 AM »

If that is the consensus of the Assembly, but we must be extremely careful that any legislation we present, debate, or pass in this assembly does not pass over into the realm of foreign policy.

Foreign policy is not our  responsibility nor is it our jurisdiction.
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Lumine
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 10:57:46 AM »

I believe Winfield is right, and I reject the claim from the Speaker that I would presume to dictate to the assembly, just as I reject the claim of my lack of support for the Kurds.

I should point out that my original efforts with Potus and Dr. Cynic involved helping the Kurds whenever possible, and I have amended the Kurdish Solidarity Act to deliver a part of the help they need in order to fight against ISIS. The original bill by Senator TNF is unrealistic no matter how one sees is, and I would rather prevent Turkey going into war and creating an even bigger mess.

But yes, I believe the current amended version will be fine given its symbolic statement.
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Blair
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 12:16:36 PM »

I'm happy to extend the debate until tomorrow, if other members of the Assembly wish so as there's clearly the potential for more debate here
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Blair
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2015, 03:34:50 PM »

I'm going to extend the debate for 10 hours to ensure that we get a good view of the entire Assembly, considering this bill has gone down a controversial path
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