Ben Carson: Prison makes people go gay
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  Ben Carson: Prison makes people go gay
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Author Topic: Ben Carson: Prison makes people go gay  (Read 5829 times)
Torie
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« on: March 04, 2015, 09:28:18 AM »
« edited: March 04, 2015, 09:30:05 AM by Torie »

Thanks Ben for sharing. Now I know why I am gay. I spent a night in jail on a DUI rap! Who knew?

In my own view, on this being gay is a choice canard (it really isn't a choice in most instances, but whatever), just why is it that even if it were a choice, that choice should be discriminated against merely because it is a choice? Isn't freedom, at least where it is not causing harm to others, all about facilitating choices, and empowering them?  What am I missing here?  Yes, I know in this gay friendly haven, that is this Forum, that asking these questions is preaching to the choir, but I always found this tangent, which the anti SSM folks think is their trump card, a particularly offensive and ersatz trump card myself, precisely because it is anti-freedom, from the party that claims to be freedom's champion. It's disgusting really.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 09:40:38 AM »

Amen, Torie!

I'm a little bit more in the choice crowd myself though I think it's a little of both. That should obviously have no bearing on the legality of a marriage. And I'm certainly not even understanding this guy's nonsense logic. Disgusting that this is coming from someone so respected in the medical field so the Religious Right can cite the one exception in the field like they do with so much.
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Vega
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 09:47:00 AM »

I honestly don't know how you can share a party with these kind of clowns.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 10:05:47 AM »

Your sexual orientation is 100% not a choice.  It's genetic and hormonal for the most part.  99%+ of gay people grow up raised by straight parents in the same way that their straight brothers and sisters grow up.  Some people just randomly choose to be gay and suffer the discrimination, teasing and abuse that entails.  It's ridiculous.  Maybe there can be some way your upbringing influences your orientation, but that's not a choice either. 

How you identify your sexuality is a choice and to an extent, what you think is gross/normal is socially and culturally influenced.  There's a spectrum of orientation that can influence how you identify.  Some people are way at one end of the spectrum.  Some people are bisexual and some point are in between there.  A man who was way at the heterosexual end of the spectrum could be repeatedly raped by a man in prison, he wouldn't thus be aroused and get an erection and want to switch places so to speak.  There are also gay men who can stomach having sex with a woman on occasion.  In olden times, they would get married to a woman and just rarely have sex, be miserable and maybe have gay sex on the side.  That's what Republicans want from gay men.  Be miserable and make a woman miserable, and try to get some action at the bathroom at the MSP airport.  It's reprehensible.

But, this "choice" idea, just no.  For your straights, think about the most disgusting woman you can think of.  Can you choose to be attracted to her?  Of course not.  That sort of sexual attraction is not a choice, because it's based on instinct and evolutionary factors that make you want what you want.

So, yeah Ben Carson is an anti-gay bigot.  He says horrible, crazy things and he's a leading contender for the Republican nomination because the Republican party is partly based around hating people. 
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 10:39:10 AM »

I honestly don't know how you can share a party with these kind of clowns.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 10:50:43 AM »

I honestly don't know how you can share a party with these kind of clowns.
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anvi
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 10:51:18 AM »

After listening to that, I think the more urgent question is whether Carson was born stupid or stupidity is his choice.  Fortunately, freedom still wins in the end, since we don't have to elect him to anything.  
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© tweed
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 10:54:18 AM »

is he wrong?  otherwise self-styled heterosexuals will find sexual release with other men if no women are available.  I'm sure my solution to this "problem" would be quite different from Carson.

there's also a problem with categorizing people into groups based on their sexuality.  I identify as a heterosexual but can find men attractive, in certain ways at certain times.  a gay friend of mine has had positive sexual experiences with women.  and so on.


 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' are not static identities, strictly speaking.
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Torie
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 10:58:44 AM »

is he wrong?  otherwise self-styled heterosexuals will find sexual release with other men if no women are available.  I'm sure my solution to this "problem" would be quite different from Carson.

there's also a problem with categorizing people into groups based on their sexuality.  I identify as a heterosexual but can find men attractive, in certain ways at certain times.  a gay friend of mine has had positive sexual experiences with women.  and so on.


 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' are not static identities, strictly speaking.

Carson I think is suggesting that after prison, where women are again available, ex-cons continue to do men, when they had not prior to being incarcerated.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 11:02:20 AM »

After listening to that, I think the more urgent question is whether Carson was born stupid or stupidity is his choice.  Fortunately, freedom still wins in the end, since we don't have to elect him to anything.  

He's only stupid when talking about politics. If a fish can't climb a tree, is the fish stupid?
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 11:03:23 AM »

Tweed's final sentence explains what I was saying above most accurately.

The problem with what he is saying is that it's not turning them gay. MSM is used just for this purpose. If they identify as straight, that's not going to change things (99% of the time, I suppose environment can have some effect on a non static label). He's also using this to advance bigotry which is the obvious problem. It's no different from that roadside billboard about the twins with different sexual orientations. That doesn't change what the issue means. It's about freedom that doesn't hurt anyone.
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 11:04:30 AM »

is he wrong?  otherwise self-styled heterosexuals will find sexual release with other men if no women are available.  I'm sure my solution to this "problem" would be quite different from Carson.

there's also a problem with categorizing people into groups based on their sexuality.  I identify as a heterosexual but can find men attractive, in certain ways at certain times.  a gay friend of mine has had positive sexual experiences with women.  and so on.


 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' are not static identities, strictly speaking.

Carson I think is suggesting that after prison, where women are again available, ex-cons continue to do men, when they had not prior to being incarcerated.

it's not impossible that that's true.  however, if this constitutes a problem, wouldn't the best path to take be a massive reduction in prison populaion?  or at least an expansion of furloughs/conjugal visits?
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useful idiot
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 11:06:21 AM »

Dumb statement to make obviously (saying everything you think is not a virtue, and giving your enemies ammo is never wise), but I don't want Chris Cuomo's response to be lost in all this:

"Drug addicts go to prison and come out criminals, does that mean all drug addicts are criminals?"
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bedstuy
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 11:11:21 AM »

Tweed's final sentence explains what I was saying above most accurately.

The problem with what he is saying is that it's not turning them gay. MSM is used just for this purpose. If they identify as straight, that's not going to change things (99% of the time, I suppose environment can have some effect on a non static label). He's also using this to advance bigotry which is the obvious problem. It's no different from that roadside billboard about the twins with different sexual orientations. That doesn't change what the issue means. It's about freedom that doesn't hurt anyone.

But, is it right to conflate identity with orientation?

You can be a flaming homosexual, but abstain from sex and remain in the closet.  And, you can deny your orientation to yourself.  But, that's not going to change what gives you a boner.  And, you can be bisexual, but only date and have sex with your own gender and identify as gay.   
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 11:13:53 AM »

I wonder if all this thinking about gay sex might make Ben Carson go gay too? Thankfully, he has Christ to help keep him from making this sexy, tempting choice.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 11:14:29 AM »

Tweed's final sentence explains what I was saying above most accurately.

The problem with what he is saying is that it's not turning them gay. MSM is used just for this purpose. If they identify as straight, that's not going to change things (99% of the time, I suppose environment can have some effect on a non static label). He's also using this to advance bigotry which is the obvious problem. It's no different from that roadside billboard about the twins with different sexual orientations. That doesn't change what the issue means. It's about freedom that doesn't hurt anyone.

But, is it right to conflate identity with orientation?

You can be a flaming homosexual, but abstain from sex and remain in the closet.  And, you can deny your orientation to yourself.  But, that's not going to change what gives you a boner.  And, you can be bisexual, but only date and have sex with your own gender and identify as gay.   


You're right. I'm using them as synonyms for those who are completely open, but that's obviously not a fair assessment for a large portion of the population.
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Torie
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 11:15:00 AM »

is he wrong?  otherwise self-styled heterosexuals will find sexual release with other men if no women are available.  I'm sure my solution to this "problem" would be quite different from Carson.

there's also a problem with categorizing people into groups based on their sexuality.  I identify as a heterosexual but can find men attractive, in certain ways at certain times.  a gay friend of mine has had positive sexual experiences with women.  and so on.


 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' are not static identities, strictly speaking.

Carson I think is suggesting that after prison, where women are again available, ex-cons continue to do men, when they had not prior to being incarcerated.

it's not impossible that that's true.  however, if this constitutes a problem, wouldn't the best path to take be a massive reduction in prison populaion?  or at least an expansion of furloughs/conjugal visits?

There is a good case to be made that we have too many folks incarcerated. The risk of their going gay is not one of them.  Being gay is not a problem!  Smiley
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 11:19:57 AM »

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Smash255
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 11:21:16 AM »

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anvi
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 11:22:10 AM »

After listening to that, I think the more urgent question is whether Carson was born stupid or stupidity is his choice.  Fortunately, freedom still wins in the end, since we don't have to elect him to anything.  

He's only stupid when talking about politics. If a fish can't climb a tree, is the fish stupid?


Fair enough.  But it looks like he is planning a campaign and asking us to judge him on the basis of his political views in that endeavor.  if a fish is not capable of climbing a tree, it shouldn't try.
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 11:23:52 AM »

is he wrong?  otherwise self-styled heterosexuals will find sexual release with other men if no women are available.  I'm sure my solution to this "problem" would be quite different from Carson.

there's also a problem with categorizing people into groups based on their sexuality.  I identify as a heterosexual but can find men attractive, in certain ways at certain times.  a gay friend of mine has had positive sexual experiences with women.  and so on.


 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' are not static identities, strictly speaking.

Carson I think is suggesting that after prison, where women are again available, ex-cons continue to do men, when they had not prior to being incarcerated.

it's not impossible that that's true.  however, if this constitutes a problem, wouldn't the best path to take be a massive reduction in prison populaion?  or at least an expansion of furloughs/conjugal visits?

There is a good case to be made that we have too many folks incarcerated. The risk of their going gay is not one of them.  Being gay is not a problem!  Smiley

agreed, but building a coalition to get people out of prison can include nutters.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2015, 11:31:30 AM »

Actually, I kind of wish all Republicans would believe that. That way, they might finally start doing something to curb mass incarceration with the hope of reducing homosexuality. Tongue
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 12:11:43 PM »

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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 12:34:57 PM »

The fact that when they come out of prison they choose to no longer have sex with women proves that being straight has always been a choice!!!1!

This guy is a such a moron along with so many of the 2016 contenders. Can't wait until we wipe the floor with one of them.
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2015, 01:02:39 PM »

Personally once I found out what Ben Carson's track record was I found him to be a flamethrower and firebrand that is unelectable.
Ben & Jerrys ice cream, if it were a candidate, would do a better job gaining votes.
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