The Porcupine: Special Election Debate Commentary Thread

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

For citizens to comment or submit potential questions, this is the thread to do it.

Citizen-submitted questions may be introduced by me at the end of the debate, based on their merit.

[Flake]

What do you think is the best way to move forward on economic growth?

[Türkisblau]

What is your view on the current debate about inactivity?

[Lief 🗽]

Much of Foucalf's latest screed in the debate is other course nonsensical (and worryingly reminds one of a Tea Party-esque pro-austerity rant), but I'm particularly amused by his calls for antitrust legislation as a panacea for his imagined budget deficit, and I hope he elaborates on that.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Much of Foucalf's latest screed in the debate is other course nonsensical (and worryingly reminds one of a Tea Party-esque pro-austerity rant), but I'm particularly amused by his calls for antitrust legislation as a panacea for his imagined budget deficit, and I hope he elaborates on that.

What does the Boston Tea Party have to do with austerity?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I remember when Atlasia was divided between the left-wing JCP and the centre-right RPP. Their dominance and machine politics stifled civil society, and in an unprecedented move they both agreed to disband themselves.

BS.

We never sought a two-party system. It developed in response to the decline of the UDL and Populares. To the extent that the RPP operated at all like a machine, it was in opposing the machine nature of the JCP. I maintained open forum, I encouraged diversity of opinion and we worked together as a community of regionalists and reformers to advance each other. At the end, it was so wonderful in that we basically had one of the largest parties in the game, operating as a team even when we disagree or had diverse membership ranging from Marokai and Afleitch to JCL and Zuwo.

The JCP was a one man outfit, where bgwah did everything. The RPP was the exact opposite.  It sickens me that the JCP had to drag us down with them because we happened to have the misfortune of success, of surviving the unsurvivable in 2009 and early 2010 and outlasting the Populares only to end up in the JCP's dance of death. What is even more galling is to hear the RPP being tarnished in this fashion and equated with JCP as has been done here as if there was no difference. I am not bgwah, I never was bgwah, and I never wanted to be bgwah (maybe DWTL did, but I couldn't say, I only knew him for a few months). Maybe if I had, perhaps I could have gotten Duke elected in October 2011 (but considering I had people litteraly go ape sh**t fing crazy just for asking for their votes I don't see how that would have worked) and the stupid dissolution crap never would have happened. Considering less than a year later, the IB and Whigs merged and the Liberal and Labor chugged on with the former slowly melting away, the continuance of the RPP would not have produced the kind of lopsided game people so feared and supposedly necessitated us paying the price for bgwah's dominance. The moderates who joined us to oppose bgwah, would have left, and things would have worked much the same as they ended up.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The only good policy Labour has supported in the past year is reforming Senate procedure. Here's some Atlasian history for you all: the original Senate rules were imposed by Sam Spade and deliberately designed to confuse Senators. Yankee, as far as I know, is the only one who took it seriously. This is not to disrespect the former Senator, but it's about time the rules changed.

Not only will I study the Senate rules, but I will make an active effort to strip the rules to the essence of what it should be. Many of what's needed for the Senate to function is a Robert's Rules system, and that makes up much of Article IV of the Rules. Much of Article III and VII, on the other hand, are superfluous and requires cutting. The fewer needless clauses we have, the more we can prevent abuses of power (such as TNF's borderline criminal passage of electricity nationalization).

As I recall, the rules were changed and though I had some disagreements with Nix, I would say I was very cooperative. I formulated my own alternative that was just slightly larger then his but still a massive 62% reduction in the size of the text. I then worked to make sure that my priorities were maintained and the final product was quite good though some problems have come about as is to be expected. I should note that I did this whilst lacking internet access and having to walk down a busy road to the neighbors just to get access.. I spent years tussling with the rules, but I applaud you for crediting the original author. A year and a half ago, a rumor got started probably from the IRC that I had had written them intentionally to confuse Senators when I spent years trying to improve them. I was able to kill that bs, but unfortunately I wasn't able to kill similar falsehoods in the last part of last year.

I think you have the right idea, but applied in the wrong way. The very clauses you will strip in Article III could potentially spell the ability for a Speaker to shut out minority voices and move us towards a partisan SEnate administration. This is the very thing that TNF has been seeking for the past two years and you will impose it in the name of preventing his excesses from occuring again?

As for Article VII, it is the last remnant of a section I added back in August of 2009 to bring accountabiltiy to incompetent and inactive officeholders. However, it wasn't until Kalwejt and Nappy got on board in 2012 that it took off and we created the committees. I don't regret this attempt to bring greater interaction within our gov't, and ironically it was NAppy that they ended up being used to go after. They failed because aside from myself others lacked the imagination to put them to use and I could not run them all.

[Adam Griffin]

And, despite my many other commitments, I've given thoughtful responses to all questions asked, knocked on Atlasians' PM boxes, canvassed in IRC and tried to keep my speeches snappy. Labour, get on my level.

But remember, we're a "machine" as you so said, so we've done all of that and more, of course. Oh, and I - unlike you - have managed to take the high ground and not run a single-issue campaign where I complain about another political party.

Can you seriously articulate one full post in this campaign (or any campaign) without attacking Labor? I seriously don't think you know how. Also, if you lose, can we expect another one of these?

SPEECH ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE

...

To Arturo Belano, who probably can't get out of bed every morning if the Labour Politburo did not command him to do so;

To TNF, the Midwest's original carpetbagger, whose respect for our region amounts to using it as a rotten borough for his radical communist agenda;

To Windjammer, our modern Beria, an enabler of Midwestern Labour since early 2014, as incompetent a legal defender as he is a brilliant puppeteer;

To GAWorth, who fashions himself as an independent insider, but can never shake his total ignorance of economics;

And to Lebron Fitzgerald, the worst Midwestern Governor in recent memory, whose reign of ignorance, intimidation and illegality even alienated the Labour Politburo from him, deservedly banned from political activity in the near future.


I will wish Governor Gass well in his endeavours, mostly because up to this point he has done nothing of note. But take heed - look at the people in your party who have ruined our region. Are these the people you want to be surrounded with? I have brought to you a competitive campaign, talent from regions far away, and a substantial policy debate. I have brought to you civil society. It is your choice to ignore it, or to reach out to real Midwesterners and change our region for the better.

There are going to be a whole lot more voters this time to denigrate if you plan on doing so.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

What'cha discussing?  How can I get involved?

[Adam Griffin]

What'cha discussing?  How can I get involved?

The upcoming special election (which opens tonight). Unfortunately, there's some silly rule that states you cannot vote in a federal election if you registered less than a week before it, so you won't be eligible to vote in this one. However, that doesn't mean you can't jump into discussions and debates right away (I believe the Mideast - the region you're in - has a regional election this week and there is no similar restriction on being able to vote in it).

[Poirot]

Hi new voter. This thread is for comments about the debate for the special Senate At-Large election. The debate has ended and the voting will start soon (since you just registered you will not be eligible to vote unfortunatley). I don't know if it's because of the election but emotions are high it seems at the moment.  

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Tell me something about the Labor candidate please.

[Adam Griffin]

That would be me. Here is my campaign thread where I've fielded questions and talked about my broader plans, and you can of course ask any questions of me that you'd like.

[Foucaulf]

I'll request for some time to reply.

It would embarrass to try to contend Yankee's post point by point, but let me be clear that I did not try to personally attack anyone during the debate. The only time I even addressed Adam was to counter his statements on the Atlasia economy. I know enough about the JCP and Bgwah's micromanagement, though it would only be fair to have him rebut the characterization.

But let's be clear on what I mean by civil society here. I'm talking about discussion and debate outside political parties. And I understand that Yankee and Adam are party insiders through and through, but that's why I'm running! I'm running to be different, to transcend a politics of cliquishness.

My remarks about the rules were preliminary and didn't suggest scraping sections altogether. Section VII may deserve that, but Section III could do with merely some trimming. For example, is it legal for regular Atlasians to comment in legislation threads? Could there be greater flexibility in the number of threads open at one time? There has to be a way to diminish the amount of lag caused by human error.


And, following off of that:

Can you seriously articulate one full post in this campaign (or any campaign) without attacking Labor?

I'm sorry if I'm a tad skeptical of a party that has both destroyed my home region and caused a civil war in our country.

Labour members who registered after October 2014 should take a look at the chaos before that; if you want to look at Adam's platform, consider looking at my rebuttal to Labour policy that will be posted tomorrow.

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If I had to redo the Midwestern election again, I would've taken a more conciliatory tone. But, of course, I wasn't targeting voters in that post; I was targeting politicians. I didn't even mention you, even though you engineered the two-minute hate against me during the campaign.

But here's a life principle I live by: if someone keeps stabbing you with a hot poker, maybe it's time to fight back.

[Adam Griffin]

We know what you stand against; what do you stand for?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'll request for some time to reply.

It would embarrass to try to contend Yankee's post point by point, but let me be clear that I did not try to personally attack anyone during the debate. The only time I even addressed Adam was to counter his statements on the Atlasia economy. I know enough about the JCP and Bgwah's micromanagement, though it would only be fair to have him rebut the characterization.

But let's be clear on what I mean by civil society here. I'm talking about discussion and debate outside political parties. And I understand that Yankee and Adam are party insiders through and through, but that's why I'm running! I'm running to be different, to transcend a politics of cliquishness.

bgwah would most likely agree with most of what I said, since he gets angry when people don't credit him with having done all the work.

For a Party insider, I sure have felt pretty alone since February 1st, 2012. I was fairly isolated within the IB, and 2013 in the Feds wasn't much better. I got the chairmanship because virtually everyone else who would have desired it had checked out by then and was once again left alone at the top trying desperately to keep the party alive. If losing my Senate seat did anything good, it means that I am no longer alone in the Federalist Party. I don't see how the Federalist Party has ever been much of a clique.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I'll request for some time to reply.

It would embarrass to try to contend Yankee's post point by point, but let me be clear that I did not try to personally attack anyone during the debate. The only time I even addressed Adam was to counter his statements on the Atlasia economy. I know enough about the JCP and Bgwah's micromanagement, though it would only be fair to have him rebut the characterization.

But let's be clear on what I mean by civil society here. I'm talking about discussion and debate outside political parties. And I understand that Yankee and Adam are party insiders through and through, but that's why I'm running! I'm running to be different, to transcend a politics of cliquishness.

bgwah would most likely agree with most of what I said, since he gets angry when people don't credit him with having done all the work.

For a Party insider, I sure have felt pretty alone since February 1st, 2012. I was fairly isolated within the IB, and 2013 in the Feds wasn't much better. I got the chairmanship because virtually everyone else who would have desired it had checked out by then and was once again left alone at the top trying desperately to keep the party alive. If losing my Senate seat did anything good, it means that I am no longer alone in the Federalist Party. I don't see how the Federalist Party has ever been much of a clique.

     Indeed, while I played a role in the formation of the RPP, I have had no role in the internal politics of the Federalist Party until about two weeks ago. The consistent complaint from those who have tried has been a lack of people helping in running the party.