Vietnam War: Win, Lose, or Draw for America?

[Panda Express]

How do you guys think America did in the Vietnam War?

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

All around a pretty embarrassing loss.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

All around a pretty embarrassing loss.

Yeah, there was no real need.  We pretty much abandoned the Saigon government.  We wouldn't have had to recommit ground troops to get the desired result but we were just too war weary to even provide what we had said we would.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

When I was younger, I was taught that it was the only war the united states ever lost. I stand by that.

[KingCountyRepublican]

A pretty dismal defeat.

[Thunderbird is the word]

Defeat, and a pointless and murderous one at that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvA1bKLQtbM

[windjammer]

A pretty dismal defeat.

[Associate Justice PiT]

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

     You could probably characterize it as a win for America in the sense that it helped break public trust in the government (though Watergate had a much bigger role in that) and introduced a healthy dose of skepticism towards the actions of officials. That's really changing the meaning of victory and defeat compared to how they are understood in these contexts though.

[TDAS04]

All around a pretty embarrassing loss.

[The Mikado]

You could probably make a case for draw...that the government in Saigon was still standing when the war ended and that its fall two years later is outside of the timeframe of the war and is irrelevant.

That case is stupid, however. Loss.

[dead0man]

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

The "Pentagon" is a tool the politicians use.  Blaming the "Pentagon" for Vietnam is like blaming the gun for murder.


We won every major battle, had a very good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (the military was designed, at the point the war started, to fight on the open fields of Europe, not the jungles of southeast Asia) and left on our own terms.  A win?  well no, obviously not as we didn't reach our goals, but I've got a hard time calling it a loss.

[HankW501]

I was just talking with my best friend today about how bad the treatment of the American soldiers returning from Vietnam by a large portion of the public totally sucked, considering that a great majority of them did not voluntarily join the army; if their number came up, they either went to Vietnam, went to jail, or sneaked across the Canadian border.

Considering that the primary objective was to keep communism from spreading, particularly in that case to keep it from spreading to South Vietnam, how could anyone possibly deny that we lost?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

The "Pentagon" is a tool the politicians use.  Blaming the "Pentagon" for Vietnam is like blaming the gun for murder.


We won every major battle, had a very good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (the military was designed, at the point the war started, to fight on the open fields of Europe, not the jungles of southeast Asia) and left on our own terms.  A win?  well no, obviously not as we didn't reach our goals, but I've got a hard time calling it a loss.

It doesn't matter if the US had tactical success. Wars are military means to political goals, and North Vietnam achieved its political goal (unification of Vietnam under Hanoi) while the US failed to achieve its goal (survival of the Saigon government).

[Badger]

I'm assuming Deadman was one of the two tie votes, but who the hell voted "win"? And why oh why?

[Blair]

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

The "Pentagon" is a tool the politicians use.  Blaming the "Pentagon" for Vietnam is like blaming the gun for murder.


We won every major battle, had a very good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (the military was designed, at the point the war started, to fight on the open fields of Europe, not the jungles of southeast Asia) and left on our own terms.  A win?  well no, obviously not as we didn't reach our goals, but I've got a hard time calling it a loss.

You didn't win every major battle http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

By your logic the war of independence was a draw for the UK right? We weren't trained to fight there, we had a good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (no-one likes Boston) and we left on our own terms?

If your claiming Vietnam, I'm claiming the WOI

[dead0man]

I'm assuming Deadman was one of the two tie votes, but who the hell voted "win"? And why oh why?

I didn't vote.

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

The "Pentagon" is a tool the politicians use.  Blaming the "Pentagon" for Vietnam is like blaming the gun for murder.


We won every major battle, had a very good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (the military was designed, at the point the war started, to fight on the open fields of Europe, not the jungles of southeast Asia) and left on our own terms.  A win?  well no, obviously not as we didn't reach our goals, but I've got a hard time calling it a loss.

You didn't win every major battle http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

By your logic the war of independence was a draw for the UK right? We weren't trained to fight there, we had a good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (no-one likes Boston) and we left on our own terms?

If your claiming Vietnam, I'm claiming the WOI

I said "major".  I didn't read every line from your link, but the 20ish I read were all fairly minor (at best).  You seemed to also miss the part where I said we didn't win.

I totally understand why it's considered a loss, it's just not a clean loss.


(and besides the points you made, the UK "lost" that war for some of the same reasons the US "lost" Vietnam, the people at home lost the will to fight a war that they didn't see much point in fighting and it was managed poorly by politicos an ocean away)

[Blair]

I'm assuming Deadman was one of the two tie votes, but who the hell voted "win"? And why oh why?

I didn't vote.

A win for the US population's ability to make themselves heard, a defeat for the Pentagon.

The "Pentagon" is a tool the politicians use.  Blaming the "Pentagon" for Vietnam is like blaming the gun for murder.


We won every major battle, had a very good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (the military was designed, at the point the war started, to fight on the open fields of Europe, not the jungles of southeast Asia) and left on our own terms.  A win?  well no, obviously not as we didn't reach our goals, but I've got a hard time calling it a loss.

You didn't win every major battle http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

By your logic the war of independence was a draw for the UK right? We weren't trained to fight there, we had a good kill:death ratio despite the sh**tty conditions (no-one likes Boston) and we left on our own terms?

If your claiming Vietnam, I'm claiming the WOI

I said "major".  I didn't read every line from your link, but the 20ish I read were all fairly minor (at best).  You seemed to also miss the part where I said we didn't win.

I totally understand why it's considered a loss, it's just not a clean loss.


(and besides the points you made, the UK "lost" that war for some of the same reasons the US "lost" Vietnam, the people at home lost the will to fight a war that they didn't see much point in fighting and it was managed poorly by politicos an ocean away)

So then the war of Independence wasn't a clean loss? Wicked.

Does this look like anything but a loss?