What could possibly explain this relationship? A headscratching analysis
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 02:20:49 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  What could possibly explain this relationship? A headscratching analysis
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: What could possibly explain this relationship? A headscratching analysis  (Read 4395 times)
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,664
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2015, 12:58:24 AM »

SPLC/TIME: "See How the Number of Hate Groups in the U.S. Has Changed Over Time"

http://time.com/3739966/hate-groups-splc/

Bar graphs galore!

someone should tell them that 17 years isn't a "quarter century."

Since the SPLC considers the Nation of Islam a hate group, I can't help but wonder if they themselves would qualify as an "Anti-Muslim" hate group under their definition.

So a group that is often mischaracterized as a leftist propaganda mill is lampooned (poorly) for demonstrating they actually call out hate groups of all creeds, ideologies, and colors.

Roll Eyes Just Roll Eyes

They are not leftist in any hard sense - their biases are more mainstream and conventional than to give them any sympathy with black power movements. The point is their rush to label groups as inspired by "hate" is wide-netted and ham-fisted.
Logged
useful idiot
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,720


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2015, 08:36:26 AM »

What is a "Patriot Group"? The militia category is understandable and tangible, but if they're just labeling Tea Party chapters, which have never been violent in any way, and equating them with armed groups who were violent in the 90's, then this chart is just stupid.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,804


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2015, 09:45:17 AM »

The number of groups doesn't tell you much of anything. What is their membership? Activities? Beliefs? Etc. The Michigan militia was a lot more prominent in the mid-1990s than during the Great Recession. There was even some TV show where they had a militia guy as the defendant in a trial.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2015, 10:32:51 PM »
« Edited: March 13, 2015, 02:02:55 AM by blackraisin »

Glad the Time bar graph doesn't show the breakdown of militias. Not a "hate group."
For some one that "isn't a racist", you sure dislike people who go after racists.

Ah ... the race card. That didn't take long. I take issue with the SPLC because it is a flawed, politically-driven, propaganda org. And I'm not alone in thinking that ... just ask the right-wing extremists at Dailykos who agree with me. Like how the Southern POVERTY Law Center has a secret Cayman bank account, which is apparently bad if you're Mitt Romney, but fine if you are a non-profit.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/11/26/923486/-Southern-Poverty-Law-Center-s-Cayman-Islands-bank-account

I first started hating the SPLC when they targeted people who weren't racist, because of political motivations. In their 2010 issue (included below) they included several mainstream politicos on one of their list of icky haters deserving of shunning. One would hope the list would be reserved for ACTUAL haters like Neo-Nazis, instead of people the SPLC just disagrees with on policy. The list included:

Chuck Baldwin, Constitution Party candidate for President, for the crime of saying George W Bush was too liberal (GASP!), for being a Baptist, and for being a southerner.

Michelle Bachmann, Republican Congresswoman, for the crime of opposing the Japanese internment in WWII.

Ron Paul, Republican Congressman, for the crime of being a "radical" who opposes Obamacare, the Fed, and the UN.

Paul Broun, Republican Congressman, for the crime of denying global warming and trying to ban porn on military bases.

Glenn Beck, Media Personality, for the crime of crying, calling the President Hitler (whom the SPLC usually argues is "right-wing" and thus a compliment coming from Beck), and selling gold.

You may not like any of these people, or their political views, but they absolutely do not belong on a list issued by a group devoted to fighting "racism" like you claimed. So yeah, I take issue with the SPLC for being a bunch of hacks hiding behind their past work. I'm glad they took down a lot of KKK people in the 1980s, but their new targets have nothing to do with their old, and yet they constantly conflate the two. Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachmann belong on a list of haters as much as Bernie Sanders and Sheldon Whitehouse belong on a list of radical communist sympathizers. When the SPLC does stuff like this, it encourages the government to do likewise. Kind of like how the 2009 MIAC report on super scary terrorists warned police that Ron Paul bumper stickers and Don't Tread on Me flags are a good sign that they've pulled over a terrorist.

The SPLC is a joke org and it has absolutely nothing to do with "racism".


http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots/the-enablers

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 10:53:22 PM »

Glad the Time bar graph doesn't show the breakdown of militias. Not a "hate group."

Yes, this is proven by the vast abundance of inter-racial, inter-denominational extremist militias that have no substantial ties to klan/nazi type groups.

For example, there's the.....um, well.....

JJ Johnson's group out of Ohio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is_CRRyTei4

You're falling prey to an opposition-crafted narrative. The idea that militias can only be of one ideology is silly. In his objective study of the militias (included below), Prof. Robert Churchill broke the militias into 3 types: Small "L" libertarian (Michigan Militia), End-times Millennialist (Militia of Montana), and racist (Posse Commitatus).  Other than the word "militia" and a few common traits (like wearing shoes, and owning guns), they aren't really the same. It's just a lot easier for us to classify everyone into a neat little box, and so now anyone who hasn't studied the issue just assumes that everyone believes the same thing. Take noted terrorist Tim McVeigh. He attended one meeting of the Michigan Militia, after which he was expelled for advocating actual violence. But I'm sure 90% of the posters here would assume he was "militia" because the ideologies get conflated. Most militia groups have no racial motivation. Some do though. Most Democrats have no racist believes. Some do though. It's unfair to assume that a part = the whole. I mean, isn't that what Democrats have been saying for years about Islam?

http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9780472027460
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2015, 11:28:34 PM »

I have a suspicion based on your avatar, but do you support the militias?

I mean, their mere existence does not offend or terrify me. If you're asking if I think militias should violently overthrow the government tomorrow, then no I do not support them. But since very few are actually trying to do that, I need more clarification on what you mean by support. I mean, support for overthrowing an unjust government is pretty much universal beyond a certain point (like in V for Vendetta). That means the idea should be placed on a spectrum and evaluated that way. In other words, a government must be "Really Bad" to justify violence, where "Really Bad" varies from person to person. I do not think we are anywhere close to needing some kind of 1776 moment, others do. I do my best to mock and discourage those people who want civil war sooner rather than hopefully never, but I don't see why American citizens can't have guns, perform military drills in the woods, and play "fit the nWo gub'mint" when they aren't going to do anything.

Besides, as far as political violence goes, the far-left cuckoos have always been more dangerous than the far-right cuckoos. During the past 100 years or so, you've had a rash of Socialist and Marxist bombings and other attempts to overthrow the "gub'mint" (Including 2 Presidential assassinations, 2 attacks on the US Capitol, 30 mails bombs immediately preceding the Palmer raids, and at least 40 attacks just by Weather Underground). As far as Right-wing nutters, you basically get Tim McVeigh, an AMTRAK derailment, a failed bomb left at an IRS office in '95, some bricks thrown through DNC windows by Vanderboeghites, peaceful dumbasses at Bundy's ranch, and some moron who attacked a grill at Tom Perriello's brother's house after Obamacare passed. Other than that, it's just "Oh so and so has a lot of guns and hates the government. That's a terrorist plot!"I mean, the self-identified Commies on this website have said more violent things than most of these right-wing "plots".

Out of curiosity, was your suspicion based on the "C" party label? Because if you look at my political matrix score and compare it to the scores of other posters on this website, I'm closer to 0 than many of the crowd favorites (Red, Blue, and Yellow).
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2015, 11:48:23 PM »

Obama is a black, you see.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2015, 11:52:05 PM »


Yup, here he is pictured with his black grandparents.

Logged
PPT Spiral
Spiral
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,522
Bosnia and Herzegovina


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2015, 11:54:56 PM »

The SPLC clearly has their own agenda, so it's laughable when the media frequently portrays them as some objective organization. They're not very different from the Anti-Defamation League.
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2015, 09:36:43 AM »


Yup, here he is pictured with his black grandparents.

[image]

The argument that Barack Obama is not black is certainly a novel one.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2015, 10:07:15 AM »


Yup, here he is pictured with his black grandparents.

[image]

The argument that Barack Obama is not black is certainly a novel one.

There's nothing novel about calling him biracial. Or are you suggesting not cynically playing the "one-drop" game is what's novel.

Try again.
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2015, 12:14:50 PM »


Yup, here he is pictured with his black grandparents.

[image]

The argument that Barack Obama is not black is certainly a novel one.

There's nothing novel about calling him biracial. Or are you suggesting not cynically playing the "one-drop" game is what's novel.

Try again.

Are you also suggesting Barack Obama is not black? Are you the arbiter of his blackness?
Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,563
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2015, 12:23:52 PM »

the best 'Obama is not black' argument is that 'black' is defined as 'descendant of slaves'.  which would make Obama African-American but not black.
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2015, 12:39:49 PM »

Barack Obama is, of course, descended from John Punch, the very first African slave in Virginia. Facts like that demonstrate the difficulty of using this or any metric rather than simple self-identification.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2015, 01:12:35 PM »
« Edited: March 13, 2015, 01:14:16 PM by L.D. Smith, Knight of Appalachia »

Barack Obama is, of course, descended from John Punch, the very first African slave in Virginia. Facts like that demonstrate the difficulty of using this or any metric rather than simple self-identification.

He's also has his mother and grandparents from Kansas, they come from who knows of what kind of European culture.

And his speeches and books seem to suggest he's comfortable with both backgrounds.

Take this into account,along with the politics regarding  the above...and it's just waaay too tricky.

Logged
All Along The Watchtower
Progressive Realist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,420
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2015, 01:32:07 PM »

oh god, the "Obama is America's first half-white President" banality again.
Logged
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,664
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2015, 05:00:14 PM »

Barack Obama is, of course, descended from John Punch, the very first African slave in Virginia. Facts like that demonstrate the difficulty of using this or any metric rather than simple self-identification.

He's also has his mother and grandparents from Kansas, they come from who knows of what kind of European culture.

And his speeches and books seem to suggest he's comfortable with both backgrounds.

Take this into account,along with the politics regarding  the above...and it's just waaay too tricky.



Yes, he is biracial. He is also black.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2015, 05:48:05 PM »




[/quote]

Yes, he is biracial. He is also black.
[/quote]

This exactly, but it seems people forget the former too much, or don't appreciate the implications of having elected a biracial president [twice] on its own merits.

Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,237
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2015, 07:14:48 PM »

The SPLC clearly has their own agenda, so it's laughable when the media frequently portrays them as some objective organization. They're not very different from the Anti-Defamation League.

Please. As one of the few posters here who actually reads their quarterly magazines (I'm a member), they slam and investigate everyone quite evenly. If there is a "bias" in their coverage of right wing extremism, it is because of the sad, but unquestionably quantifiable, fact that a vast majority of extremist anti-government and hate groups have far-right ideology. Outside Black Nationalist hate groups like the Nation of Islam and some ultra extreme environmental or animal rights fringe groups like Earth First! and the Animal Liberation Front, there isn't nearly as much violence or race-hate from the extreme left as the extreme right.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2015, 07:20:46 PM »

Hah, he looks a lot like his Grandmother doesn't he?
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2015, 09:41:50 AM »

the best 'Obama is not black' argument is that 'black' is defined as 'descendant of slaves'.  which would make Obama African-American but not black.

One would think this makes him "black but not African American"
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.059 seconds with 12 queries.