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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2005, 09:33:13 am »
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Arizona.
5,131 mio inhabitants.
51 seats.
And some very troubled geography.

Theoretical entitlements:
Cochise - 118K. 1 seat
Coconino - 116K. 1 seat
Maricopa - 3072K. 31 seats
Mohave - 155K. 1+1 seat.
Navajo - 97K. 1 seat
Pima - 844K. 8 seats
Pinal - 180K. 2 seats
Yavapai - 168K. 2 seats
Yuma - 160K. 2 seats.

That leaves 222K people with one seat and part of one...plus, a look at where they're located.
La Paz County (20K) is the only minor county bordering Mohave and will have to be paired with that, making the are worth two seats.
Santa Cruz County (38K) borders only Pima and Cochise County. I've paired it with Pima County, which leaves us with no seats available for 163K people (in a contiguous area).
I paired Gila County (51K) with Maricopa County, which does not create an extra seat, but still leaves me with 112K people (in Apache, Greenlee and Graham Counties) without a seat for them.
I've decided to pair Mohave and La Paz Counties with Yuma County, making 335K people and three seats. That way I had a seat available for eastern Arizona again.
Finally, under this plan the Navajo country would be in three seats (Coconino, Navajo, and Apache Greenlee Graham), making up a majority portion of none of these seats (barely, in the last case). I've decided to create a Navajo & Hopi Reservations seat instead. The remainder of Coconino is still large enough for its own seat. The remainder of Navajo County is paired with the remainder of Apache Greenlee Graham to make up one seat - except that that seat is slightly over 120K, so I chopped off part of Navajo County and added it to the Coconino seat.

BULLHEAD CITY & LAKE HAVASU CITY
The misleadingly-named Kingman South CCD of Mohave County, minus its unpopulated east. Slightly less than 98K inhabitants.
YUMA
Virtually all of Yuma County's Yuma CCD (123K).
LOWER COLORADO
Remainder of Yuman and Mohave counties, La Paz County. District includes state's Northwestern and Southwestern corner. 114K plus areas gained from other two seats' CCDs.
PRESCOTT
Most of the population of Prescott CDP (96K), incl. all of the cities of Prescott (34K) and Prescott Valley (23K).
YAVAPAI
Remainder of Yavapai County (72K plus some rural Prescott CDP people).
FLAGSTAFF
Coconino County except areas on Navajo and Hopi Reservations; Little Colorado CCD of Navajo County. 101K.
NAVAJO & HOPI RESERVATIONS
What the name says (inside Arizona only, of course). 111K (27K from Coconino, 31K from Navajo, 53K from Apache).
SNOWFLAKE & SAN CARLOS
Remainder of Navajo and Apache counties; Greenlee and Graham counties. 106K.
COCHISE
Cochise County. 118K.
PAPAGO & ARIVACA
All of Pima County outside of Tucson CCD. 87K.
TUCSON 1-5
CASAS ADOBES
CATALINA FOOTHILLS
Seats entirely within Tucson CCD (756K). Tucson city has 487K. Casas Adobes and Catalina Foothills are largest suburbs, at about 50K each.
NOGALES (& add some Tucson outer suburban name here, if you prefer)
Remainder of Tucson CCD; Santa Cruz County (38K).
FLORENCE & APACHE JUNCTION
Florence, San Manuel, and North Pinal CCDs of Pinal County. 98K
CASA GRANDE
Remainder of Pinal County. 82K
WICKENBURG & GILA BEND
Wickenburg, Buckeye, and Gila Bend CCDs of Maricopa County. 85K
PHOENIX CCD 1-26
Populations of cities would allow for 13 Phoenix seats, 4 Mesa seats, 1 Gilbert seat, 2 Glendale seats, 2 Scottsdale seats, 1+1 Tempe seat, 1 Peoria seat (almost, actually), and 1+1 seat in smaller towns and unincorporated areas. Whether this would actually work out depends somewhat on where the cities are located.
CHANDLER WEST
CHANDLER EAST
Chandler (216K) and Saint John's (3K) CCDs. City of Chandler has 152K.
DEER VALLEY
Only part of Deer Valley CCD (149K). One problem is that much of the area is actually incorporated into Phoenix, Peoria, and Glendale.
SALT RIVER
Remainder of Deer Valley CCD; Tonto and Salt River CCDs; Gila County. 211K together for these two seats.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 03:54:18 am by Lewis Trondheim »Logged

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"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2005, 10:21:01 am »
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New Mexico.
1,819 Mio inhabitants.
18 seats.

Theoretical entitlements:
Bernalillo 557K - 6 seats. I ended up pairing this with Valencia (66K) however.
Dona Ana - 175K - 2 seats.
Sandoval - 90K. 1 seat.
San Juan - 114K. 1 seat.
Santa Fe - 129K. 1 seat & part of one.
Left me with 756K (or 690K after Valencia) for 6 seats and a (large) part of one.

I'm not comfy with a few of the pairings below, and if someone (yes, looking at you) can produce a better outline you're totally welcome to post it.

SHIPROCK & FARMINGTON
San Juan County. 114K.
GALLUP & ZUNI
McKinley & Cibola counties. 101K.
SANDOVAL
Sandoval County. 90K
SANTA FE
Santa Fe and Santa Fe South CCDs of Santa Fe County. 112K.
TAOS & LOS ALAMOS
Santa Fe North CCD; Los Alamos, Rio Arriba, and Taos counties. 106K
LAS VEGAS & TUCUMCARI
Colfax, Mora, San Miguel, Harding, Union, Quay, Guadalupe, Torrance, and DeBaca counties. 88K.
CLOVIS & HOBBS
Curry, Roosevelt, Lea counties. 119K
ROSWELL & CARLSBAD
Chaves, Eddy. 113K.
ALAMOGORDO & SOCORRO
Otero, Lincoln, and Socorro counties. 99K.
LAS CRUCES
Las Cruces CCD of Dona Ana County. 87K.
DONA ANA
Remainder of Dona Ana County. 88K.
SILVER CITY
Sierra, Catron, Grant, Luna, Hidalgo counties. 84K.
VALENCIA & ISLETA
Valencia County; Isleta Pueblo, Bernalillo East, Bernalillo West CCDs of Bernalillo County. 88K.
ALBUQUERQUE 1-5 (cardinal points)
Albuquerque CCD. 535K.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 03:58:51 am by Lewis Trondheim »Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2005, 12:10:44 pm »
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COLORADO
4,301 mio inhabitants. 43 seats.

Theoretical entitlements:
Mesa 116, 1 seat
Weld 180, 2 seats
Larimer 251, 3 seats
Boulder 291, 3 seats (notice I'm using 2000 figures, before Broomfield County was created)
Denver 555, 6 seats
Adams 363, 4 seats
Arapahoe 488, 5 seats
Jefferson 527, 5 seats
Douglas 176, 2 seats
El Paso 517, 5 seats
Pueblo 141, 1+1 seats

Problem is, that leaves me with 694K people and 5 seats and part of one. I had to fuse either Denver and Adams or Larimer and Weld to get an additional seat out to rural Colorado. Went with the former.

GLENWOOD SPRINGS & COLORADO NORTH WEST
Moffat, Routt, Jackson, Rio Blanco, Garfield, Grand. 97K
GRAND JUNCTION
Mesa. 116K
EAGLE - CENTRAL CITY
Gilpin, Clear Creek, Summit, Eagle, Park, Lake. 103K
ASPEN - MONTROSE
Pitkin, Gunnison, Chaffee, Delta, Montrose. 106K
DURANGO & COLORADO SOUTH WEST
Ouray, San Miguel, Dolores, Montezuma, San Juan, La Plata, Hinsdale, Archuleta, Mineral. 94K
CANON CITY
Teller, Fremont, Custer, Saguache, Rio Grande. 104K
PUEBLO
Pueblo CCD of Pueblo County. 107K
TRINIDAD & COLORADO SOUTH EAST
Remainder of Pueblo County; Conejos, Costilla, Huerfano, Las Animas, Otero, Baca, Bent, Prowers. 111K
COLORADO SPRINGS 1-3 (cardinal points)
COLORADO SPRINGS (SOUTH) WEST & PIKES PEAK
Colorado Springs CCD (352K), plus included in the last one Pikes Peak, Cheyenne Mountain, and Fountain CCDs (69K together). 421K together
CIMARRON HILLS & AIRFORCE ACADEMY
Black Forest - Peyton, Elsmere, South East El Paso, Monument CCDs. 96K
COLORADO EAST
Logan, Segwick, Phillips, Yuma, Washington, Kit Carson, Cheyenne, Lincoln, Elbert, Kiowa, Crowley, Morgan. 113K. It's amazing how empty Eastern Colorado is.
GREELEY
Greeley CCD of Weld County. 99K
WELD (or geographical term)
Remainder of Weld County. 81K
LOVELAND - BERTHOUD
Loveland and Berthoud CCDs of Larimer County. 84K
FORT COLLINS EAST
FORT COLLINS WEST
Remainder of Larimer County. 168K together. 27K from CCDs other than Fort Collins included in West seat.
LONGMONT
Longmont and Upper Saint Vrain CCDs of Boulder County. 86K
BOULDER (WEST)
Bald Mountain CCD, most of Boulder CCD of Boulder County. 125K -x.
LAFAYETTE & LOUISVILLE (or LAFAYETTE & BOULDER EAST)
Lafayette - Louisville CCD (79K), plus areas from Boulder CCD.
DENVER 1-5
Yeah, well, 5 seats. Cardinal or neighborhood names.
WEST ADAMS 1 & 2
Two seats inside the West Adams CCD (260K) of Adams County. Thornton would definitely go into one name. Westminster might go into the other. (Denver area city boundaries have nothing in common with county boundaries. Lots of cities are half in one county, half in another. I don't know why.)
DENVER / WEST ADAMS
Obviously the name's not going to stand, but this is the seat cutting across the city line.
BRIGHTON & COMMERCE CITY
Brighton, Commerce City, North Aurora, and East Adams CCDs. 104K
LITTLETON
SOUTHGLENN
Southwest Arapahoe CCD. 183K
AURORA 1-3 (cardinal points)
South Aurora CCD (298K, of which 236K inside the city). And, included in one district, East Arapahoe (8K).
LAKEWOOD NORTH (or WEST)
LAKEWOOD SOUTH (or EAST)
ARVADA
SOME OTHER NAME
inside the North East Jefferson CCD (450K)
GOLDEN
Remainder of Jefferson County (77K from Golden, Central Jefferson, and South Jefferson CCDs, plus a bit from NE Jefferson)
SEDALIA
Sedalia CCD of Douglas County. 97K
PARKER & CASTLE ROCK
CCDs of said names. 79K. Douglas County is one of the fastest growing in the nation, so I won't bother with the slight discrepancy.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2005, 03:56:24 am »
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Changed some seat names in the Mountains.
I'll have to transfer Sierra County out of the Alamogordo seat, it's divided from the remainder of the seat by a missile range. Probably exchange it for Socorro.
Edit: Done.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 03:59:07 am by Lewis Trondheim »Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2005, 04:36:27 am »
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NORTH DAKOTA
642K inhabitants, 6 seats

FARGO
Fargo and West Fargo cities of Cass County. 106K
JAMESTOWN & WAHPETON
Remainder of Cass County; Richland, Sargent, Ransom, Dickey, La Moure, Barnes, Traill, Steele, Griggs, Foster, Eddy, Nelson, Stutsman counties. 114K
GRAND FORKS (& DEVILS LAKE)
Grand Forks, Wash, Pembina, Cavalier, Ramsey, Towner counties. 107K
BISMARCK
Burleigh, Emmons, McLean, Sheridan, Wells, Kidder, Logan, McIntosh, Benson, Pierce counties. 109K
MINOT
Ward, Renville, Mountrail, Burke, Divide, Williams, Bottineau, McHenry, Rolette counties. 120K
DICKINSON & MANDAN
All the counties to the SW of the Missouri River. 89K.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2005, 05:21:58 am »
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SOUTH DAKOTA
755K
8 seats

I've successfully played my hand at racial gerrymandering! Smiley

RAPID CITY
Rapid City, Box Elder cities, Keytone town, Central Pennington, Rapid City East, Mount Rushmore CCDs (not everywhere in South Dakota is split completely into townships...many counties in the western part of the state are not) 83K
SPEARFISH & BLACK HILLS
Remainder of Pennington County (just 6K...I could have left it complete...look at a map and at the county's comprising this and the next district to understand why I didn't); Custer, Fall River, Meade, Lawrence, Butte, Harding, Perkins Counties. 79K, but decided to let it go
DAKOTA
Shannon, Bennett, Jackson, Todd, Haakon, Ziebach, Dewey, Corson, Mellette, Jones, Lyman, Tripp, Gregory, Buffalo, Charles Mix, Stanley, Brule. 80K.
All the major Dakota reserves in the state are here. The district has 68% of the state's Native American population and is 53% Native American. And it doesn't look like a gerrymander.
PIERRE & ABERDEEN
Hughes, Sully, Hyde, Hand, Potter, Faulk, Walworth, Campbell, Edmunds, McPherson, Brown, Spink. 87K
WATERTOWN & BROOKINGS
Marshall, Day, Roberts, Grant, Deuel, Codington, Clark, Hamlin, Brookings, Kingsbury. 103K
MITCHELL & HURON
Beadle, Jerauld, Aurora, Sanborn, Miner, Davison, Hanson, McCook, Lake, Moody, Douglas counties, and all of Minnehaha County outside Sioux Falls city limits. 108K
SIOUX FALLS
City of Sioux Falls. 117K
YANKTON
Hutchinson, Turner, Lincoln, Bonhomme, Yankton, Clay, Union counties. 97K
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 10:36:52 am by Lewis Trondheim »Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2005, 05:55:55 am »
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whilst I appreciate you doing this, the prblem with naming seats after twons is that it doesn't cover the whole seat. For example, when it was created Kalgoorlie was just the town, which was bigger as a % back in 1901 then it is now. It now spreads throughout practically th whole WA outback. It's probably the only case of this problem in Australia. But you look at seats in Canada like that Kenowa-something one-what about all the other areas? Calling the seat "Rural Ontario Central West" would be more accurate, but rather boring. Naming it after a community leader in the area, or a river, etc., is much better imho.

I live in a relativekly boringly-named seat, Melbourne Ports, which sorta kinda suffers the smae probelms as Kalgoorlie. When it was created, it basically only covered Port Melbourne, the dockyards, South Melbourne and Albert Park-the area the port's workers lived in, basically, and where the Port asolutely dominated life. Now it spreads right along the bay, although it is still a reasonable name because it is basically the whole inner city shorline. Anyway, names that are based on locations generally=bad.
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2005, 10:36:24 am »
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Names based on localities = not perfect, but certainly a billion times better than the despiseable and Australian habit of naming them after people.
Smiley
Yeah, I'd actually like a few more mountain, river etc names than I have. Problem is, you can't use large rivers all that much because they are in lots and lots of constituencies, and with smaller rivers...well, they usually don't cover the area any better...and I often don't know what they are...
Anyways naming a district after two towns rather than one at least conveys a reasonable picture of where the seat is. For example, take Pierre & Aberdeen in SD. Not only are they the two largest urban areas in the district, with about 40% of its total population together, but they're very near its SWern and NEern ends. (Aberdeen is larger than Pierre btw. My normal practice would be to name the seat Aberdeen & Pierre. I went with Pierre & Aberdeen because Pierre is the state capital.)

« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 10:40:04 am by Lewis Trondheim »Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2005, 12:18:46 pm »
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Nebraska
1,711 mio inhabitants.
17 seats.

Lancaster - just over 250K, 3 seats
Douglas - 463K, 5 seats
Sarpy - 123K, 1 seat and part of one. Combined Douglas and Sarpy to form six seats.

OMAHA 1-4 (cardinal points)
Yeah, well. City of Omaha (390K), plus some enclaves from McArdle precinct (Nebraskan for township)
ELKHORN CITY & RICHLAND
Remainder of Douglas County, Forest City, Melia & Forest City, and Richland precincts of Sarpy County. 93K
BELLEVUE & PAPILLION
Remainder of Sarpy County. 103K
LANCASTER SOUTH
LANCASTER NORTH WEST
LANCASTER NORTH EAST
The city has 226K of county's 250K inhabitants. The remainder is organized in 4*6=24 precincts, which would all be square except that 4 of them have most of their territory and two more some of their territory removed to make Lincoln city. 7 should go into NW, 7 into NE, 10 into S, as in: first to third (e-to-w) tier: 2 NW, 2 NE. fourth tier: 1 NW, 2 S, 1 NE. fifth & sixth tier: S. The fleabitten ones are the middle ones in the second tier. The heavily fleabitten ones are the middle ones in the third & fourth tiers. Hope this description makes sense.
BEATRICE & PLATTSMOUTH
Cass, Otoe, Nemaha, Richardson, Pawnee, Johnson, Gage, Jefferson, Thayer, Saline. 115K
FREMONT & YORK
Fillmore, Seward, York, Polk, Butler, Sanders, Colfax, Dodge. 119K
NORFOLK & BLAIR
Washington, Burt, Cuming, Stanton, Madison, Platte, Boone, Nance. 120K
(SOUTH SIOUX CITY &) NIOBRARA RIVER
Thurston, Wayne, Dakota, Pierce, Dixon, Cedar, Antelope, Knox, Holt, Boyd, Rock, Keya Paha, Brown. 99K
GRAND ISLAND & HASTINGS
Hall, Adams, Clay, Nuckolls, Merrick, Hamilton. 114K
KEARNEY & BROKEN BOW
Dawson, Buffalo, Custer, Sherman, Valley, Blaine, Loup, Garfield, Wheeler, Greeley, Howard. 101K
NORTH PLATTE & McCOOK
Perkins, Lincoln, Chase, Hayes, Dundy, Hitchcock, Red Willow, Frontier, Gosper, Furnas, Phelps, Harlan, Franklin, Kearney, Webster. 98K
SCOTTS BLUFF & OGALLALA
Scotts Bluff, Banner, Kimball, Morrill, Cheyenne, Garden, Deuel, Sioux, Dawes, Box Butte, Sheridan, Cherry, Grant, Hooker, Thomas, Arthur, McPherson, Logan, Keith. 109K


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"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2005, 01:31:56 pm »
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Your system makes a case for a single state of Dakota (pop 1397 K, 14 seats).  Smiley

NORTH DAKOTA
642K inhabitants, 6 seats

FARGO
Fargo and West Fargo cities of Cass County. 106K
Leave as is - 106 K

Quote
JAMESTOWN & WAHPETON
Remainder of Cass County; Richland, Sargent, Ransom, Dickey, La Moure, Barnes, Traill, Steele, Griggs, Foster, Eddy, Nelson, Stutsman counties. 114K
JAMESTOWN & DEVILS LAKE
Add McHenry, Rolette, Pierce, Benson, Ramsey, remove Nelson, Richland, Ransom, Sargent, Dickey, LaMoure, remainder of Cass - 98 K

Quote
GRAND FORKS (& DEVILS LAKE)
Grand Forks, Wash, Pembina, Cavalier, Ramsey, Towner counties. 107K
GRAND FORKS
Add Nelson, remove Ramsey - 99 K

Quote
BISMARCK
Burleigh, Emmons, McLean, Sheridan, Wells, Kidder, Logan, McIntosh, Benson, Pierce counties. 109K
Remove Benson, Pierce - 97 K
 
Quote
MINOT
Ward, Renville, Mountrail, Burke, Divide, Williams, Bottineau, McHenry, Rolette counties. 120K
Remove Rolette and McHenry - 100 K

Quote
DICKINSON & MANDAN
All the counties to the SW of the Missouri River. 89K.
Add (from SD) Corson, Dewey, Ziebach - 102 K
This puts together the Standing Rock Reservation.


SOUTH DAKOTA
755K
8 seats

RAPID CITY
Rapid City, Box Elder cities, Keytone town, Central Pennington, Rapid City East, Mount Rushmore CCDs (not everywhere in South Dakota is split completely into townships...many counties in the western part of the state are not) 83K
Use all of Pennington, add Custer, Fall River - 104 K

Quote
SPEARFISH & BLACK HILLS
Remainder of Pennington County (just 6K...I could have left it complete...look at a map and at the county's comprising this and the next district to understand why I didn't); Custer, Fall River, Meade, Lawrence, Butte, Harding, Perkins Counties. 79K, but decided to let it go
SPEARFISH
Add Haakon, Stanley, Jones, Shannon, Jackson, Bennett, Todd, Mellette, remove Pennington, Custer, Fall River - 94 K

Quote
DAKOTA
Shannon, Bennett, Jackson, Todd, Haakon, Ziebach, Dewey, Corson, Mellette, Jones, Lyman, Tripp, Gregory, Buffalo, Charles Mix, Stanley, Brule. 80K.
All the major Dakota reserves in the state are here. The district has 68% of the state's Native American population and is 53% Native American. And it doesn't look like a gerrymander.
MITCHELL & HURON
Add Beadle, Jerauld, Aurora, Sanborn, Davison, Douglas, Hanson, Miner, Kingsbury, remove Corson, Dewey, Ziebach, Haakon, Stanley, Jones, Shannon, Jackson, Bennett, Todd, Mellette - 90 K


Quote
PIERRE & ABERDEEN
Hughes, Sully, Hyde, Hand, Potter, Faulk, Walworth, Campbell, Edmunds, McPherson, Brown, Spink. 87K
Add (from ND) Dickey, LaMoure - 97 K

Quote
WATERTOWN & BROOKINGS
Marshall, Day, Roberts, Grant, Deuel, Codington, Clark, Hamlin, Brookings, Kingsbury. 103K
WATERTOWN
Add (from ND) Richland, Ransom, Sargent, remainder of Cass, remove Brookings, Kingsbury, Hamlin, Deuel, Clark - 101 K

Quote
MITCHELL & HURON
Beadle, Jerauld, Aurora, Sanborn, Miner, Davison, Hanson, McCook, Lake, Moody, Douglas counties, and all of Minnehaha County outside Sioux Falls city limits. 108K
BROOKINGS
Add Brookings, Hamlin, Deuel, Clark, remove Beadle, Jerauld, Aurora, Sanborn, Davison, Douglas, Hanson, Miner  - 97 K

Quote
SIOUX FALLS
City of Sioux Falls. 117K
Leave as is - 117 K

Quote
YANKTON
Hutchinson, Turner, Lincoln, Bonhomme, Yankton, Clay, Union counties. 97K
Leave as is - 97 K
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2005, 06:06:33 pm »
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When you get to IL, within Chicago the easiest subdivisions are for "Community Areas". These are equivalent to groups of census tracts and are all named by their neighborhood. If you don't have the data, I can get it to you.
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« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2005, 01:18:27 am »
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whilst I appreciate you doing this, the prblem with naming seats after twons is that it doesn't cover the whole seat. For example, when it was created Kalgoorlie was just the town, which was bigger as a % back in 1901 then it is now. It now spreads throughout practically th whole WA outback. It's probably the only case of this problem in Australia. But you look at seats in Canada like that Kenowa-something one-what about all the other areas? Calling the seat "Rural Ontario Central West" would be more accurate, but rather boring. Naming it after a community leader in the area, or a river, etc., is much better imho.

I live in a relativekly boringly-named seat, Melbourne Ports, which sorta kinda suffers the smae probelms as Kalgoorlie. When it was created, it basically only covered Port Melbourne, the dockyards, South Melbourne and Albert Park-the area the port's workers lived in, basically, and where the Port asolutely dominated life. Now it spreads right along the bay, although it is still a reasonable name because it is basically the whole inner city shorline. Anyway, names that are based on locations generally=bad.

Um... Kelowna is in British Columbia not Ontario. And naming districts after people is just dumb for the geographers at heart.
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« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2005, 01:48:15 pm »
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whilst I appreciate you doing this, the prblem with naming seats after twons is that it doesn't cover the whole seat. For example, when it was created Kalgoorlie was just the town, which was bigger as a % back in 1901 then it is now. It now spreads throughout practically th whole WA outback. It's probably the only case of this problem in Australia. But you look at seats in Canada like that Kenowa-something one-what about all the other areas? Calling the seat "Rural Ontario Central West" would be more accurate, but rather boring. Naming it after a community leader in the area, or a river, etc., is much better imho.

I live in a relativekly boringly-named seat, Melbourne Ports, which sorta kinda suffers the smae probelms as Kalgoorlie. When it was created, it basically only covered Port Melbourne, the dockyards, South Melbourne and Albert Park-the area the port's workers lived in, basically, and where the Port asolutely dominated life. Now it spreads right along the bay, although it is still a reasonable name because it is basically the whole inner city shorline. Anyway, names that are based on locations generally=bad.

Um... Kelowna is in British Columbia not Ontario. And naming districts after people is just dumb for the geographers at heart.
He was probably thinking of Kenora.
Anyways, Australians are doing that all the time.
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2005, 01:49:19 pm »
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When you get to IL, within Chicago the easiest subdivisions are for "Community Areas". These are equivalent to groups of census tracts and are all named by their neighborhood. If you don't have the data, I can get it to you.
Yeah, do that. A map, too. The Census Bureau doesn't seem to provide that. It's still got a bit of time, though. I planned on doing the South first.
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2005, 01:55:56 pm »
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Your system makes a case for a single state of Dakota (pop 1397 K, 14 seats).  Smiley
True, I noticed that too.

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DICKINSON & MANDAN
All the counties to the SW of the Missouri River. 89K.
Add (from SD) Corson, Dewey, Ziebach - 102 K
This puts together the Standing Rock Reservation.
Quote
Standing Rock and Cheyenne River Reservations, actually. While they're both Sioux, they're not home to quite the same Sioux subgroups. Cheyenne River was settled by the Minneconjou, Sans Arc, and Two Kettle, and part of the confusingly named Blackfeet Sioux (all Northern Oglala subgroups). Standing Rock has the remainder of the Blackfeet Sioux, as well as most of Sitting Bull's own Hunkpapa (also a Northern Oglala group) and the bulk of the Yanktonai (not an Oglala group.) Anyways, I'd prefer to leave my little gerrymander intact. Maybe add Sioux County ND to the Dakota seat.
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« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2005, 04:29:45 pm »
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Changed some seat names in the Mountains.
I'll have to transfer Sierra County out of the Alamogordo seat, it's divided from the remainder of the seat by a missile range. Probably exchange it for Socorro.
Edit: Done.

Interesting. What 'building blocks' are you using to create the districts, anyway? Counties and...?
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« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2005, 08:24:02 pm »
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Theoretical entitlements:
Weld 180, 2 seats
Boulder 291, 3 seats (notice I'm using 2000 figures, before Broomfield County was created)
Adams 363, 4 seats
Jefferson 527, 5 seats
The Census Bureau estimates include a restatement of the April 2000 census figures to the current boundaries.

This gives:
Adams 348
Boulder 269
Broomfield 39
Jefferson 525
Weld 180

This makes your proposed pairing of Adams and Denver more reasonable (or you could keep them separate and give Adams 3 very large districts).  Boulder and Broomfield would be paired for 3 districts.   No adjustment to Weld or Jefferson is needed.

I have redone the outstate areas to take better account of things like mountain ranges and economic links.  Also, you left out Alamosa.

COLORADO NORTH WEST
Moffat, Routt, Jackson, Rio Blanco, Garfield, Pitkin 99K
(note that only all-year route out of Aspen is down the Roaring Fork Valley to Glenwood Springs.  A large share of Aspen ski workers live in Garfield County because Aspen is too expensive)
CENTRAL ROCKIES
Gilpin, Clear Creek, Summit, Eagle, Park, Grand 106K
(Added Grand, dropped Lake)
GRAND JUNCTION
Mesa 117K
COLORADO SOUTH WEST
Gunnison, Chaffee, Delta, Montrose, Ouray, San Miguel, Hinsdale, Montezuma, Dolores 112K
(not real happy about including Montezuma, but otherwise next district would be over).
SAN JUANS & SAN LUIS VALLEY
San Juan, La Plata, Archuleta, Mineral, Rio Grande, Conejos, Costilla, Alamosa, Saguache 101K
UPPER ARKANSAS
Teller, Fremont, Chaffee, Custer, Lake 94K
PUEBLO
Pueblo CCD of Pueblo County. 107K
LOWER ARKANSAS & SANGRE DE CRISTO
Remainder of Pueblo County; Huerfano, Las Animas, Otero, Baca, Bent, Kiowa, Prowers. 110K
LOWER PLATTE & HIGH PLAINS
Logan, Segwick, Phillips, Yuma, Washington, Kit Carson, Cheyenne, Lincoln, Elbert, Morgan. 113K.

Quote
LONGMONT
Longmont and Upper Saint Vrain CCDs of Boulder County. 86K
BOULDER (WEST)
Bald Mountain CCD, most of Boulder CCD of Boulder County. 125K -x.
LAFAYETTE & LOUISVILLE (or LAFAYETTE & BOULDER EAST)
Lafayette - Louisville CCD (79K), plus areas from Boulder CCD.
If Broomfield is paired with Boulder County, then the former Adams County part of Broomfield would probably bring the Broomfield, Lafayette, & Louisville seat up to size without taking out areas nearer to Boulder.  This would then give you a Boulder (city) and mountains seat, and a Longmont seat, including Niwot if needed.

Quote
DENVER 1-5
Yeah, well, 5 seats. Cardinal or neighborhood names.
6 if separate from Adams.  Neighborhoods are too small.    Maybe two west of the Platte (NW and SW), then C, NE, S (or E depending on C) and SE.

Quote
WEST ADAMS 1 & 2
Two seats inside the West Adams CCD (260K) of Adams County. Thornton would definitely go into one name. Westminster might go into the other. (Denver area city boundaries have nothing in common with county boundaries. Lots of cities are half in one county, half in another. I don't know why.)
DENVER / WEST ADAMS
Obviously the name's not going to stand, but this is the seat cutting across the city line.
BRIGHTON & COMMERCE CITY
Brighton, Commerce City, North Aurora, and East Adams CCDs. 104K
If you were pairing Denver and Adams, I would look at pairing Aurora with Denver.  Aurora is isolated from the rest of the populated area north of Denver.  In any case, I suspect Aurora is the largest city in the Brighton & Commerce City district.

Quote
LITTLETON
SOUTHGLENN
Southwest Arapahoe CCD. 183K
AURORA 1-3 (cardinal points)
South Aurora CCD (298K, of which 236K inside the city). And, included in one district, East Arapahoe (8K).
Probably Littleton-Englewood, Centennial, and the 3 Aurora seats (South, Souther, and Southest).

Quote
LAKEWOOD NORTH (or WEST)
LAKEWOOD SOUTH (or EAST)
ARVADA
SOME OTHER NAME
inside the North East Jefferson CCD (450K)
GOLDEN
Remainder of Jefferson County (77K from Golden, Central Jefferson, and South Jefferson CCDs, plus a bit from NE Jefferson)
Wheat Ridge goes somewhere.  It probably makes most sense to have one western (foothills) seat, and stack the other four, north to south.  This would mean dividing Lakewood North and South.  But maybe this ends up with too much north of Lakewood, and not enough south?
Quote
SEDALIA
Sedalia CCD of Douglas County. 97K
PARKER & CASTLE ROCK
CCDs of said names. 79K. Douglas County is one of the fastest growing in the nation, so I won't bother with the slight discrepancy.
The first would be Highlands Ranch.  The town of Sedalia would fit better with Castle Rock.
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« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2005, 01:31:32 am »
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Changed some seat names in the Mountains.
I'll have to transfer Sierra County out of the Alamogordo seat, it's divided from the remainder of the seat by a missile range. Probably exchange it for Socorro.
Edit: Done.

Interesting. What 'building blocks' are you using to create the districts, anyway? Counties and...?
the next level down. Basically after I've created and, in most cases, posted, the districts I'm looking at another, offline, more goegraphical map to see if what I've written makes any sense at all. In some of the worst cases, I've made changes afterwards.

Btw, when I wrote "that means you" in the NM article, I meant you.
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« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2005, 01:40:10 am »
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Quote
Theoretical entitlements:
Weld 180, 2 seats
Boulder 291, 3 seats (notice I'm using 2000 figures, before Broomfield County was created)
Adams 363, 4 seats
Jefferson 527, 5 seats
The Census Bureau estimates include a restatement of the April 2000 census figures to the current boundaries.

This gives:
Adams 348
Boulder 269
Broomfield 39
Jefferson 525
Weld 180

This makes your proposed pairing of Adams and Denver more reasonable (or you could keep them separate and give Adams 3 very large districts).  Boulder and Broomfield would be paired for 3 districts.   No adjustment to Weld or Jefferson is needed.

I have redone the outstate areas to take better account of things like mountain ranges and economic links.  Also, you left out Alamosa.
Nebraska probably has some error somewhere as well. Too bored to find it.
Quote

COLORADO NORTH WEST
Moffat, Routt, Jackson, Rio Blanco, Garfield, Pitkin 99K
(note that only all-year route out of Aspen is down the Roaring Fork Valley to Glenwood Springs.  A large share of Aspen ski workers live in Garfield County because Aspen is too expensive)
CENTRAL ROCKIES
Gilpin, Clear Creek, Summit, Eagle, Park, Grand 106K
(Added Grand, dropped Lake)
GRAND JUNCTION
Mesa 117K
COLORADO SOUTH WEST
Gunnison, Chaffee, Delta, Montrose, Ouray, San Miguel, Hinsdale, Montezuma, Dolores 112K
(not real happy about including Montezuma, but otherwise next district would be over).
SAN JUANS & SAN LUIS VALLEY
San Juan, La Plata, Archuleta, Mineral, Rio Grande, Conejos, Costilla, Alamosa, Saguache 101K
UPPER ARKANSAS
Teller, Fremont, Chaffee, Custer, Lake 94K
PUEBLO
Pueblo CCD of Pueblo County. 107K
LOWER ARKANSAS & SANGRE DE CRISTO
Remainder of Pueblo County; Huerfano, Las Animas, Otero, Baca, Bent, Kiowa, Prowers. 110K
LOWER PLATTE & HIGH PLAINS
Logan, Segwick, Phillips, Yuma, Washington, Kit Carson, Cheyenne, Lincoln, Elbert, Morgan. 113K.

Quote
LONGMONT
Longmont and Upper Saint Vrain CCDs of Boulder County. 86K
BOULDER (WEST)
Bald Mountain CCD, most of Boulder CCD of Boulder County. 125K -x.
LAFAYETTE & LOUISVILLE (or LAFAYETTE & BOULDER EAST)
Lafayette - Louisville CCD (79K), plus areas from Boulder CCD.
If Broomfield is paired with Boulder County, then the former Adams County part of Broomfield would probably bring the Broomfield, Lafayette, & Louisville seat up to size without taking out areas nearer to Boulder.  This would then give you a Boulder (city) and mountains seat, and a Longmont seat, including Niwot if needed.

Quote
DENVER 1-5
Yeah, well, 5 seats. Cardinal or neighborhood names.
6 if separate from Adams.  Neighborhoods are too small.    Maybe two west of the Platte (NW and SW), then C, NE, S (or E depending on C) and SE.

Quote
WEST ADAMS 1 & 2
Two seats inside the West Adams CCD (260K) of Adams County. Thornton would definitely go into one name. Westminster might go into the other. (Denver area city boundaries have nothing in common with county boundaries. Lots of cities are half in one county, half in another. I don't know why.)
DENVER / WEST ADAMS
Obviously the name's not going to stand, but this is the seat cutting across the city line.
BRIGHTON & COMMERCE CITY
Brighton, Commerce City, North Aurora, and East Adams CCDs. 104K
If you were pairing Denver and Adams, I would look at pairing Aurora with Denver.  Aurora is isolated from the rest of the populated area north of Denver.  In any case, I suspect Aurora is the largest city in the Brighton & Commerce City district.
Most of Aurora is in Arapahoe. The part in Adams is only about a third of that district.
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to pair that area with Denver. Although for contiguity reasons, you'd probably have to include East Adams as well.
Quote
Quote
LITTLETON
SOUTHGLENN
Southwest Arapahoe CCD. 183K
AURORA 1-3 (cardinal points)
South Aurora CCD (298K, of which 236K inside the city). And, included in one district, East Arapahoe (8K).
Probably Littleton-Englewood, Centennial, and the 3 Aurora seats (South, Souther, and Southest).

Quote
LAKEWOOD NORTH (or WEST)
LAKEWOOD SOUTH (or EAST)
ARVADA
SOME OTHER NAME
inside the North East Jefferson CCD (450K)
GOLDEN
Remainder of Jefferson County (77K from Golden, Central Jefferson, and South Jefferson CCDs, plus a bit from NE Jefferson)
Wheat Ridge goes somewhere.  It probably makes most sense to have one western (foothills) seat, and stack the other four, north to south.  This would mean dividing Lakewood North and South.  But maybe this ends up with too much north of Lakewood, and not enough south?
I would have thought I already got one large Western seat (Golden)? Or do you mean another one east of it?
You probably do, from the sound of it.
Quote
Quote
SEDALIA
Sedalia CCD of Douglas County. 97K
PARKER & CASTLE ROCK
CCDs of said names. 79K. Douglas County is one of the fastest growing in the nation, so I won't bother with the slight discrepancy.
The first would be Highlands Ranch.  The town of Sedalia would fit better with Castle Rock.
So basically, split Sedalia CCD, move Sedalia city (and perhaps some adjoining territory) into Parker & Castle Rock, and rename seats? Okay, fine. Should be slightly more balanced.

Oh, and btw: Lower Arkansas and Lower Platte are not conceivable names for Colorado districts, since the areas that could be described by them are not in Colorado.
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« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2005, 03:25:42 am »
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KANSAS
2,688 mio. 27 seats.
Wyandotte - 158K. 1+1 seats. Paired with Johnson.
Johnson - 451K. Should be 5 seats, is 4+1.
Douglas - 100K. 1 seat.
Shawnee - 170K. 2 seats.
Sedgwick - 453K. 5 seats.
Remainder - 1,357 mio. 13 seats. Yeah, that's just over half the population, but less than half the seats. Happened in Nebraska too. Similar stuff happened in a number of states, in fact. And is the main reason for pairings like Denver/Adams, or Wyandotte/Johnson where the rules would dictate pairing Wyandotte with rural country to the NW.

KANSAS CITY (KS) EAST
Part of Kansas City (147K)
KANSAS CITY (KS) WEST & SHAWNEE
Remainder of Wyandotte County including three small townships at its western end, Shawnee city, Shawnee township, Lake Quivira city. 207K for both seats.
LEAWOOD & MERRIAM
Leawood, Prairie Village, over half a dozen tiny "cities" and townships in the NEern corner of Johnson county, small part of northernmost Overland Park along US 69, Merriam city. 88K plus part of Overland Park.
OVERLAND PARK NORTH & LENEXA
Lenexa (40K), part of Overland Park (149K).
OVERLAND PARK SOUTH
Remainder of Overland Park, part of more rural areas to the south & west of Olathe (combined pop. 33K)
OLATHE
Olathe city, Olathe township (93K), plus part of more rural areas to the south & west.
LAWRENCE
Douglas county. 100K
TOPEKA NORTH
Part of Topeka city (122K), townships to the north of the Kansas river (18K)
TOPEKA SOUTH
Remainder of Topeka city, townships to the south of the Kansas river (30K)
LEAVENWORTH
Leavenworth, Jefferson, Atchison counties. 104K
KANSAS NORTH EAST
Doniphan, Brown, Jackson, Nemaha, Marshall, Pottawattomie, Washington, Republic, Cloud, and Jewell counties. 98K. No discernible urban area of any kind. This is farmland, with a very dispersed population. No defining river, either.
MANHATTAN
Riley, Clay, and Geary counties. 100K
SALINA
Dickinson, Saline, Ottawa, McPherson counties. 109K
EMPORIA & OTTAWA
Wabaunsee, Morris, Lyon, Chase, Marion, Osage, Coffey, Franklin counties. 116K
KANSAS EAST
Miami, Linn, Anderson, Bourbon, Allen, Crawford counties. 113K. A really ugly district. Much of the population is at the northern (KC far far exurban, without any major place names) and southern (where Crawford county fits much better with the next district, but is too large to be included in it) district.
PARSONS & COFFEYVILLE
Cherokee, Neosho, Labette, Montgomery counties. 99K
EL DORADO & UPPER VERDIGRIS RIVER
Wilson, Woodson, Greenwood, Elk, Chautauqua, Butler counties. 88K
WICHITA NORTH EAST
Part of the city (344K); Bel Aire city, Grant, Lincoln, Payne, Mineha, and Kechie townships (24K)
WICHITA NORTH WEST
Part of the city; Greeley, Eagle, Valley Center, Park, Union, Sherman, Attica, Garden Plain, Grand River, and Delano townships (21K)
WICHITA SOUTH WEST
Part of the city; Morton, Alton (hope I deciphered this right), Illinois, Waco, Ohio, Ninnescah, Viola, Erie townships (13K)
WICHITA CENTRAL
Part of the city
WICHITA SOUTH EAST & DERBY
Part of the city; Salem, Rockford, Riverside and Gypsum townships (50K)
WELLINGTON & FORT LARNED
Cowley, Sumner, Harper, Kingman, Barber, Pratt, Stafford, Comanche, Kiowa, Edwards, Pawnee counties. 103K. Most of the population is in Cowley and Sumner counties south of Wichita. Remainder of the district is west of Wichita on the High Plains. Fort Larned chosen to represent this area in the district name on account of historical importance.
DODGE CITY & GARDEN CITY
Finney, Hodgeman, Carey, Ford, Meade, Clark counties. 101K
HUTCHINSON & NEWTON
Reno and Harvey counties. 98K
GREAT BEND & HAYS
Rice, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Mitchell, Barton, Russell, Osborne, Smith, Rush, Ellis, Rocks, Phillips counties. 117K
(LIBERAL &) KANSAS WEST
25 counties all along the state's western boundary. 113K. Liberal is only majorish population hub and is situated at district's southeastern end.
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« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2005, 04:14:05 am »
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Quote
SEDALIA
Sedalia CCD of Douglas County. 97K
PARKER & CASTLE ROCK
CCDs of said names. 79K. Douglas County is one of the fastest growing in the nation, so I won't bother with the slight discrepancy.
The first would be Highlands Ranch.  The town of Sedalia would fit better with Castle Rock.
So basically, split Sedalia CCD, move Sedalia city (and perhaps some adjoining territory) into Parker & Castle Rock, and rename seats? Okay, fine. Should be slightly more balanced.
Probably Highlands Ranch (unincorporated) and Lone Tree (city) would be pretty close to enough.   The CCD in Colorado don't have any purpose other than for the census, and were defined when Douglas County was rural (population 3,500 in 1950).   Sedalia is a very old town which hasn't seen much growth at all.  Highlands Ranch was a ranch on the edge of the metropolitan area that was opened up to development in the past 20 years or so.

Quote
Oh, and btw: Lower Arkansas and Lower Platte are not conceivable names for Colorado districts, since the areas that could be described by them are not in Colorado.
Pulls out Colorado Year Book.  "Lower Arkansas Region".   Same counties as I included.  "Lower Platte" is the name of a high school sports conference in the area.  When you hold your hearing in Sterling, I bet the local folks agree.



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« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2005, 04:45:18 am »
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Yeah, yeah, I know all that. Well, I figure people use those terms. But I'd want people from outside the region to be able to find it on a map, as well.
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« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2005, 05:12:42 am »
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OKLAHOMA
3,451 mio inhabitants. 35 seats.

Tulsa - 563K. 6 seats
Oklahoma - 660K. 7 seats.
Cleveland - 208K. 2 seats
Canadian - 88K. 1 seat.
Comanche - 115K. 1 seat.

TULSA NORTH & OWASSO
TULSA WEST & SAND SPRINGS
3 more TULSA seats
BROKEN ARROW
CCDs are Tulsa (536K), North Tulsa (10K) and South Tulsa (17K) and are not particularly helpful. City of Tulsa has 387K. City of Broken Arrow (in the SE portion of the county) has 68K. Owasso and Sand Springs have about 20K each and are not right by Tulsa city limits. Tulsa North & Owasso constituency to include North Tulsa CCD. Broken Arrow to include South Tulsa CCD. Tulsa West & Sand Springs to include that western handle of Tulsa county, which is where Sand Springs is located.
BARTLESVILLE & MIAMI
Washington, Nowata, Craig, Ottawa. 108K
CLAREMORE & PRYOR CREEK
Rogers, Mayes. 109K
SALLISAW & GRAND LAKE O'CHEROKEES (what a stupid name. Problem is that Delaware county has a lot of people and no defining place. SALLISAW & OZARKS SOUTH WEST was the second best I came up with). Delaware, Adair, Sequoyah. 97K
COWETA & TAHLEQUAH
Wagoner, Cherokee. 100K
MUSKOGEE
Muskogee, McIntosh, Haskell. 100K
McALESTER & OKMULGEE
Okmulgee, Okfuskee, Hughes, Pittsburg. 110K
SAPULPA
Creek, Lincoln. 99K
PONCA CITY & OSAGE
Osage, Pawnee, Kay. 109K
STILLWATER & GUTHRIE
Logan, Payne. 102K
SHAWNEE
Pottawattomie, Seminole. 91K
ENID
Noble, Garfield, Grant, Kingfisher, Blaine. 100K
OKLAHOMA CITY 1-5 (cardinal points)
EDMOND
MIDWEST CITY
Oklahoma County, which is not subdivided into CCDs. City has 432K.
CANADIAN
Canadian county. 88K
MOORE & LAKE THUNDERBIRD
North Cleveland, East Cleveland, Lexington CCDs. 114K
NORMAN
Norman, Noble CCDs. 95K
WOODWARD & PANHANDLE
Cimarron, Texas, Beaver, Harper, Ellis, Woodward, Woods, Major, Dewey, Alfalfa. 93K
CLINTON & ALTUS
Beckham, Roger Mills, Custer, Greer, Harmon, Jackson, Tillman, Cotton counties. 102K
LAWTON
Comanche county. 115K
CHICKASHA & ANADARKO
Grady, Caddo, Wa shi ta, Kiowa counties. 98K
ARDMORE & DUNCAN
Jefferson, Stephens, Love, Carter counties. 105K
ADA & PAULS VALLEY
Murray, McClain, Garvin, Pontotoc. 103K
DURANT
Johnson, Marshall, Coal, Atoka, Bryan, Choctaw. 96K
OUACHITA MOUNTAINS
LeFlore, Latimer, McCurtain, Pushmataha. 105K
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« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2005, 05:36:12 am »
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ANADARKO
Grady, Caddo, Wash**ta, Kiowa counties. 98K
Is this like Scunthorpe, or related to Custer?

I'd name it Chickasha in any case.
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« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2005, 05:55:33 am »
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ANADARKO
Grady, Caddo, Wash**ta, Kiowa counties. 98K
Is this like Scunthorpe, or related to Custer?

I'd name it Chickasha in any case.
Lol. Censorship of a place name. I guess I named it  like that because I've come across references to Anadarko a couple of times...happens when you read on current Native American affairs...the BIA headquarters for Oklahoma are here...as is a lot of museal stuff on Native Americans...and the county it's in is I think the most Indian in Western Oklahoma...CHICKASHA & ANADARKO will do fine.
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