19 year old, unarmed black man shot dead by police in Madison, WI

[© tweed]

his name was Tony Robinson.  the "he was unarmed" bit of info was released today, and the cops are on "riot watch" tonight, whatever that means.

HuffPost link



here's a sketch of the circumstance of the facts (or, at least, police construction of the circumstances) from NBC News:

Madison Police Chief Mike Koval said at a Friday news conference that an officer — later identified as veteran cop Matt Kenny — responded to reports of a man jumping in and out of traffic and that "the same subject had been responsible for a battery that had recently been committed."

Koval said Kenny followed the man to the residence where the alleged battery had taken place, and said the man attacked the officer there. During the confrontation, the officer drew his weapon and shot the suspect.

The officer performed CPR on the suspect, who was taken to a hospital but later died, Koval said.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

[© tweed]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

their argument is that the cop "heard a disturbance" and had cause to believe that Robinson was a) the same dude who someone called in to complain about and b) was a participant in the disturbance.

if those facts hold up, then yes, there's a good chance that it would be considered legal.

[Reaganfan]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

Yes. An officer may enter without a warrant if he believes there is probable cause.

If a cop walks by an apartment door and hears someone screaming for help, do you think they say, "Gee...can't open that door without a warrant..."

Are you nuts?

[bedstuy]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

Yes. An officer may enter without a warrant if he believes there is probable cause.

If a cop walks by an apartment door and hears someone screaming for help, do you think they say, "Gee...can't open that door without a warrant..."

Are you nuts?

No.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

their argument is that the cop "heard a disturbance" and had cause to believe that Robinson was a) the same dude who someone called in to complain about and b) was a participant in the disturbance.

if those facts hold up, then yes, there's a good chance that it would be considered legal.

ok, well that's interesting. still doesn't excuse this kid being shot dead. do cops not shoot to wound? i thought that's part of the training?

[Cory]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

[bedstuy]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

I think I'm right.  Maybe you're a lawyer or something and you can correct me if I'm wrong. 

But, surely, you cannot just enter someone's house based on a police officer's subjective belief that there is probable cause.  If that was true, there would be no need to get a warrant to search. 

There are certain exceptions to the warrant requirement, open view, exigent circumstances, consent to a search, etc.  But, there's no just freestanding right to search a person's house because the officer thought there was probably cause.

In this case, it's 100% possible that one of the warrant exceptions applied.  But, the assertion that warrants are unnecessary ever, that's ridiculous.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This is such a damn shame. Is it even legal for a cop to enter the residence of someone that he suspects may have committed a crime without a warrant?

their argument is that the cop "heard a disturbance" and had cause to believe that Robinson was a) the same dude who someone called in to complain about and b) was a participant in the disturbance.

if those facts hold up, then yes, there's a good chance that it would be considered legal.

ok, well that's interesting. still doesn't excuse this kid being shot dead. do cops not shoot to wound? i thought that's part of the training?

Not outside of cop dramas.

They do have non-lethal defense techniques, such as stun guns, but those aren't always viable. General rule is, if an officer is under attack and is in immediate danger, they have the right to shoot to kill.

[ingemann]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

Thank you for being the voice of reason.

[Adam Griffin]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

I think I'm right.  Maybe you're a lawyer or something and you can correct me if I'm wrong.  

But, surely, you cannot just enter someone's house based on a police officer's subjective belief that there is probable cause.  If that was true, there would be no need to get a warrant to search.  

There are certain exceptions to the warrant requirement, open view, exigent circumstances, consent to a search, etc.  But, there's no just freestanding right to search a person's house because the officer thought there was probably cause.

In this case, it's 100% possible that one of the warrant exceptions applied.  But, the assertion that warrants are unnecessary ever, that's ridiculous.

I could be wrong and maybe it's because I am thinking about the dynamic with regard to automobile entry, but a police officer likely can enter a home if there is probable cause (a smell, a sound, etc). The issue is of course if the officer entered without tangible probable cause (as in, made up a totally subjective justification for doing so), then any evidence can be thrown out. Of course, in this case, someone was murdered...

[bedstuy]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

I think I'm right.  Maybe you're a lawyer or something and you can correct me if I'm wrong.  

But, surely, you cannot just enter someone's house based on a police officer's subjective belief that there is probable cause.  If that was true, there would be no need to get a warrant to search.  

There are certain exceptions to the warrant requirement, open view, exigent circumstances, consent to a search, etc.  But, there's no just freestanding right to search a person's house because the officer thought there was probably cause.

In this case, it's 100% possible that one of the warrant exceptions applied.  But, the assertion that warrants are unnecessary ever, that's ridiculous.

I could be wrong and maybe it's because I am thinking about the dynamic with regard to automobile entry, but a police officer likely can enter a home if there is probable cause (a smell, a sound, etc). The issue is of course if the officer entered without tangible probable cause (as in, made up a totally subjective justification for doing so), then any evidence can be thrown out. Of course, in this case, someone was murdered...

Did you read the wikipedia article?  Automobiles are an exception to the warrant requirement.  A man's home, on the other hand, is his castle.

[memphis]

There is (was?) a black person in Madison, WI?

[Nhoj]

There is (was?) a black person in Madison, WI?

Surprisingly yes, though Robinson identified as multiracial according to his parents.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Madison has some precincts that are near or over 30% black.

[MaxQue]

Through, the articles are saying it happened on Williamson St, in downtown. The two precincts covering that street are 3.0% and 3.2% Black. Black population is scarse in the downtown, they mainly live in the south of the city and in the North East (Maple Bluff and the airport area).

[Badger]

No.

But they can. You are wrong.

Can we please wait for some more facts to come out before rushing to conclusions?

I'm just kidding, of course we can't.

I think I'm right.  Maybe you're a lawyer or something and you can correct me if I'm wrong. 

But, surely, you cannot just enter someone's house based on a police officer's subjective belief that there is probable cause.  If that was true, there would be no need to get a warrant to search. 

There are certain exceptions to the warrant requirement, open view, exigent circumstances, consent to a search, etc.  But, there's no just freestanding right to search a person's house because the officer thought there was probably cause.

In this case, it's 100% possible that one of the warrant exceptions applied.  But, the assertion that warrants are unnecessary ever, that's ridiculous.

Bedstuy is right. The applicable provision in this case is "exigent circumstances".

[Gass3268]

Through, the articles are saying it happened on Williamson St, in downtown. The two precincts covering that street are 3.0% and 3.2% Black. Black population is scarse in the downtown, they mainly live in the south of the city and in the North East (Maple Bluff and the airport area).

This is accurate, except Maple Bluff itself is very white and wealthy. 

As someone who lived in Madison for 5 years, this situation is very sad. Grateful that the Police Chief and local officials have been very apologetic and that protests have been peaceful. There seems to be a spirt of cooperation after the incident. Hoping that we get a thorough and truthful investigation.