IDS 2: Stop PMing Me Act
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 08:55:23 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Regional Governments (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  IDS 2: Stop PMing Me Act
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3
Author Topic: IDS 2: Stop PMing Me Act  (Read 2168 times)
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: March 17, 2015, 12:10:48 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor: X

Sponsor, speak up on this.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,205
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 01:21:39 PM »

Pretty straightforward, people should have the option not to be bothered about these elections if they don't want to be.  The restrictions on when a name can be added or removed are necessary to prevent abuse and unintentional violations.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2015, 06:44:18 PM »

My only issue, and I'm sure this has been raised, is why is someone participating in the game if you they don't wish to be PMed. I feel like it comes with the territory. Plus we have the option of deregistering.

Nevertheless, I see some merit in having a list like this. I've never been in a zombie voter position because I vote early, but I can imagine how annoying it gets Tongue
Logged
Flake
Flo
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,688
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2015, 09:31:05 PM »

I can support the not-telling-people-to-support-candidate-b but I think it's important for our voters to know when an election occurs.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 09:31:44 PM »

I can support the not-telling-people-to-support-candidate-b but I think it's important for our voters to know when an election occurs.

the line drawing is what concerns me the most.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,205
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2015, 08:30:59 AM »

My only issue, and I'm sure this has been raised, is why is someone participating in the game if you they don't wish to be PMed. I feel like it comes with the territory. Plus we have the option of deregistering.

Nevertheless, I see some merit in having a list like this. I've never been in a zombie voter position because I vote early, but I can imagine how annoying it gets Tongue

I've heard from a number of folks that they want to play the game, but they are sick and tired of all the spam PMs and sample ballots, especially when they already know when and how to vote.  This is a great chance for our region to be a laboratory for reform.  If someone wants to know when an election is, that information is pretty easy to find out.  If someone only bothers to vote when someone sends them a PM telling them to do so (often along with a sample ballot), then they're basically a zombie voter. 

I know the parties may have their uses for them, but I've always had a problem with the idea of zombie voters playing a decisive role in so many elections.  It discourages people from running active campaigns and reduces candidates' incentive to take public stances on the issues.  Furthermore, across Atlasia we've seen a trend toward PM-exclusive campaigns.  In these races, we never know what sorts of attacks and empty promises are made to voters behind the scenes and there is almost literally no transparency because a candidate has decided that all they need to win is to pander to the voters as individuals with a bunch of one-on-one PMs. 

More importantly, I fundamentally believe if you don't want to be harassed with PMs, you shouldn't have to choose between getting spammed from all sides whenever there is an election and simply not playing the game at all.  Saying "well they can just deregister" doesn't do anything for those who enjoy the game and just don't like being constantly flooded with unwanted PMs.  Think of this as a Do Not Call list or as giving people the option of unsubscribing from those e-mail lists candidates use to spam their supporters with requests for campaign contributions.  I've heard plenty of folks say things like "I almost want to put DO NOT SEND ME PMs ASKING ME TO VOTE in my signature."  Atlasians shouldn't have to choose between drowning in an ocean of spam PMs and quitting the game. 

The line-drawing is necessary because with something like this, at a practical level, you have to draw the line somewhere if you are going to do anything about the problem, especially if you are going to deal with it in a way that avoids loopholes and minimizes the potential for abuse.  The penalties are necessary so that people will follow this law and not bother the folks on the list.  I don't think a Do Not PM will be effective without severe penalties for those who ignore it.  If there weren't tough penalties, there'd be plenty of candidates would just ignore it along with their supporters.
Logged
cinyc
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,721


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2015, 09:06:22 PM »

You can't ban someone from voting in a regional election.  That's unconstitutional.  Federal election law trumps all regional laws, and if someone is eligible to vote in a federal election, they are eligible to vote in a regional election.  Period.  There is a previous Supreme Court case that ruled against the Southeast when it tried to create its own regional election rules and registry.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2015, 09:54:01 PM »

The enforcement mechanism is hollow. An outsider can spam PM all he wants and no one in region can counter it.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,021


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2015, 12:22:10 AM »

Cinyc is right
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,205
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2015, 06:52:59 AM »

The enforcement mechanism is hollow. An outsider can spam PM all he wants and no one in region can counter it.

Hmm, good point.  As is the one raised by Cinyc.  I'll have to give this some more thought, but does anyone else have any thoughts on an enforcement mechanism.
Logged
cinyc
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,721


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2015, 09:39:52 PM »

The Northeast has gotten around the constitutional issue with bans on regional office holding. But that obviously wouldn't be an effective penalty against non-Southerners, who don't care about holding a position in the South.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,135
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2015, 10:00:08 PM »

     I once thought about the rules on voting in regional elections (around the time of Cottonfield and Rimjob), and it really does boil down to being registered in the region. I would like to propose an amendment to Section 9:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

     The stricken portion refers to the regional elections. I added a few words making it clear that we are talking about regional office in this region. Otherwise, one might interpret this as attempting to ban violators from being Pacific Governor or some such (no implication intended).
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 10:08:09 PM »

Furthermore, across Atlasia we've seen a trend toward PM-exclusive campaigns.  In these races, we never know what sorts of attacks and empty promises are made to voters behind the scenes and there is almost literally no transparency because a candidate has decided that all they need to win is to pander to the voters as individuals with a bunch of one-on-one PMs.   

You don't say?
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,205
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2015, 06:39:00 AM »

     I once thought about the rules on voting in regional elections (around the time of Cottonfield and Rimjob), and it really does boil down to being registered in the region. I would like to propose an amendment to Section 9:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

     The stricken portion refers to the regional elections. I added a few words making it clear that we are talking about regional office in this region. Otherwise, one might interpret this as attempting to ban violators from being Pacific Governor or some such (no implication intended).

The amendment is friendly
Logged
#CriminalizeSobriety
Dallasfan65
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,859


Political Matrix
E: 5.48, S: -9.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2015, 07:54:04 PM »

For the record, this has been tried and repealed before.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,021


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 08:01:23 PM »

I don't think there is any viable way to squash PM campaigns or PMs in general. It's a message board. PMing will happen. We tried to do something like this when Marokai and I were in the White House, but we were never really successful.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,720
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 08:03:47 PM »

Well, I'll still PM people. If someone doesn't want a message, they can ask me to stop. Interestingly enough, I can't recall anyone actually asking me to.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,205
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2015, 09:41:48 PM »
« Edited: March 25, 2015, 09:46:41 PM by X »

Well, I'll still PM people. If someone doesn't want a message, they can ask me to stop. Interestingly enough, I can't recall anyone actually asking me to.

At least you're being honest about your lack of respect for your region's laws Roll Eyes

Fortunately, you'd be able to be prosecuted if you follow through with your promise to break the law and send campaign PMs to folks on the regional do not pm list if this gets passed.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,720
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 09:59:08 PM »

Well, I'll still PM people. If someone doesn't want a message, they can ask me to stop. Interestingly enough, I can't recall anyone actually asking me to.

At least you're being honest about your lack of respect for and commitment to upholding your region's laws Roll Eyes

At least you'd be able to be prosecuted if you follow through with your promise to break the law if this gets passed.

Well, I would hope my region wouldn't pass something like this in the first place. It's a bill that's been tried and repealed. It's a bill that arguably curtails free speech. It's a bill that asks members of a forum to disregard one of the most important, fundamental, and natural tools of forumgoing. It's a bill that permits members of a voluntary game to opt out of a necessary element of said game. I just don't see how it makes sense. Getting PMs here and there around election time might be a bit annoying, but in my experience it's an annoyance that lasts around 10 seconds per message and then you shake it off and move on with your life.

I know my tone was not exactly helpful, but I'm just a little surprised that this idea is on the table. We're going to make campaigning an indictable offense in an election game? What about new players who take it upon themselves to launch a great campaign but accidentally PM someone on the list because they didn't realize how things worked? We're going to crowd them out of the game? What about a seasoned player and valuable contributor who accidentally let a PM slip through to the wrong person thanks to some brain fart? They can't play anymore? Ignorance as a defense is usually pretty unconvincing because most forbidden practices are obvious, but this one really isn't. Like I said: It's a game that's pretty much centred on campaigning. If someone doesn't like the messages, a simple "you know, can you please stop berating me" would be easier than and just as effective as a list anyway.
Logged
Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,090
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2015, 10:58:25 PM »

Furthermore, across Atlasia we've seen a trend toward PM-exclusive campaigns.  In these races, we never know what sorts of attacks and empty promises are made to voters behind the scenes and there is almost literally no transparency because a candidate has decided that all they need to win is to pander to the voters as individuals with a bunch of one-on-one PMs.  

Hilarious to see you of all people suddenly concerned about this! Would you kindly point me to your campaign HQ, Mr. Multi-term "Southron" Legislator?
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2015, 11:09:13 PM »

yall need a new speaker.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,135
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2015, 11:26:46 PM »

     Hagrid, it's about being respectful. It's about respecting someone's wishes to engage with the game how they want to engage with it. If somebody asks me to stop PMing them then I do oblige.

     I would be perfectly fine with making this list voluntary, so people can see who does not want to be messaged. If politicians can't be bothered to respect their wishes, then with any luck we can find out who those politicians are and use our voices as citizens to express disapproval. My ultimate concern is that a voluntary list will not work.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,720
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 12:14:08 AM »

I would also oblige if asked to stop. Like I said, I'd be more inclined to exhibit respectfulness if there wasn't an "or else!" attached. Regulating and policing good character just isn't the job of the government.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,135
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2015, 12:21:39 AM »

     As I said before, I would be willing to make the list voluntary and simply ask people to behave. No matter what we do, we're left with the fact that we cannot punish people from outside of the region who violate the list. If people cannot follow it without threat of punishment then it is finished from the start.
Logged
Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,090
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2015, 12:26:00 AM »

As a True Southron™ and resident in the NE, I will be more than willing to send out PMs to anyone if this law is passed (and will proactively send all sorts of random PMs to anyone who joins this list). Call me Adam Tubman, for I will keep the flow of freedom going (in a general north-south direction)!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.061 seconds with 13 queries.