Barry Goldwater vs. Bob Dole

[darklordoftech]

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[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

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[Utah Neolib]

Bob Dole, he wouldn’t nuke Vietnamn

[Schiff for Senate]

If they ran today, I may lean toward Dole, but there's a good case for Goldwater - he has a libertarian streak and in all honesty (I know I may sound like a racist, but here me out), he had a point about the Civil Rights Act. It was well-intentioned and had positive results, of course, but his point  was that forcing white southerners who were racist to allow African-Americans to work for them or come to their stores wouldn't fix or end the problem of racism, but it would honestly just create more racial resentment. If southern whites were anti-African-American before they had to 'accomodate' African-Americans, I don't think their racism would be alleviated by any means if they were forced to do so. For instance, if a white racist who has previously denied jobs to African-Americans is forced to do, he will either find some loophole to not do it or he will treat the African-American unfairly. On the other hand, in the long run, racists who own businesses will realize themselves that they are losing out on getting more customers and will have to then stop denying African-Americans anyway. I mean, of course they'd be wrong, but if someone thinks that African-Americans are lazier than white people (they aren't, but let's say someone though this), and therefore only hires white people, they will certainly not react well if they are forced to hire African-Americans, and will treat them very unfairly and only get more racist. Goldwater was basically saying that the Civil Rights Act was 1.) unenforcable on a large scale, 2.) could backfire and fuel racial resentment and 3.) would not help fix the problem of racism. Goldwater himself wasn't a racist and did not discriminate against African-Americans.

[John Dule]

Attacking Goldwater for being a warmonger is one of the most hilariously hypocritical arguments ever, given who the alternative was in the 1964 election.

[TDAS04]

Goldwater

[TheElectoralBoobyPrize]

Tough one as I really like both.

[MarkD]

I vote for Goldwater here, because of the blatant libertarianism that he became more known for later in his career, being pro-choice and supporting the view that openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the military (as influenced by his gay grandson). He also didn't like Richard Nixon very much, and served a crucial role in persuading Nixon that he should resign.
In contrast, I don't like the fact that Dole is the only living former Republican nominee that has stayed mostly loyal to Trump.

[Mr. Smith]

I vote for Goldwater here, because of the blatant libertarianism that he became more known for later in his career, being pro-choice and supporting the view that openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the military (as influenced by his gay grandson). He also didn't like Richard Nixon very much, and served a crucial role in persuading Nixon that he should resign.
In contrast, I don't like the fact that Dole is the only living former Republican nominee that has stayed mostly loyal to Trump.

No, he and Nixon were total jam buds until Watergate. Arguably that was the Et Tu moment for both of them.

Attacking Goldwater for being a warmonger is one of the most hilariously hypocritical arguments ever, given who the alternative was in the 1964 election.

Hypocrites can still be correct.

[Alben Barkley]

Attacking Goldwater for being a warmonger is one of the most hilariously hypocritical arguments ever, given who the alternative was in the 1964 election.

It’s certainly ironic in hindsight, but didn’t seem to be so much during the campaign itself. Certainly LBJ doesn’t sweep every damn county in places like upstate New York and Vermont if he hadn’t managed to convince a ton of moderate Republicans that a Goldwater presidency would be the literal end of the world. Say what you will about the ethics or honesty of that, but it certainly was extremely effective. And Goldwater didn’t help himself by sticking his foot in his mouth at every turn and talking about using nukes in Vietnam himself. And whether he actually would have done that or not, LBJ didn’t regardless of everything he did do.