Policing the Police Act of 2014 (Redraft passed)
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  Policing the Police Act of 2014 (Redraft passed)
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Author Topic: Policing the Police Act of 2014 (Redraft passed)  (Read 17952 times)
windjammer
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« on: March 17, 2015, 06:00:28 PM »
« edited: May 19, 2015, 03:17:55 PM by Mideast Senator and Senate speaker windjammer »

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Sponsor: Polnut
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windjammer
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 06:01:40 PM »
« Edited: March 23, 2015, 01:19:34 PM by Mideast Senator and Senate speaker windjammer »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 10:38:33 PM »

Why you repealing one of the laws I managed to compose and get passed whilst lacking internet access? Sad
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2015, 04:38:40 AM »

I support this almost entirely, but I think a couple of modifications will need to be made to Section 4 for it to be truly workable. In addition, I understand what the Senator wishes to accomplish by having elections as often as possible, but annual elections may prove to be on the other side of the bell curve in terms of intent and effectiveness.

I'll wait to elaborate until the Senator has spoken on behalf of the bill.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 05:31:41 AM »

Considering that I don't believe that people referred to in the Bill should be elected in the first place. I honestly find this Bill quite hyperbolic and a little hysterical.

But this strikes me as a Bill that will likely end up with majority support regardless.

I can't see how anything I will be comfortable with supporting, will be supported by the sponsor.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 08:46:58 AM »

I echo Senator Polnut's comments. There are certainly a few points in this bill that I don't oppose, but the spirit and nature of the bill are just so fundamentally different from my point of view that I don't think the sponsor would support an amended version of this bill I would support.
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TNF
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 09:52:19 AM »

I am certainly willing to modify aspects of this bill if it ill ensure its passage.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 10:44:47 AM »

I am certainly willing to modify aspects of this bill if it ill ensure its passage.

I doubt that this would produce a result we would both agree on...
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 12:23:38 PM »

I don't know that having police chiefs and commissioners elected is a good idea. It's just as likely to cause problems as it is to solve them. Otherwise, I think this is a very good bill.
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bore
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 12:31:46 PM »

One initial point I'd like to make is to point that out there are elected police commissioners in England and Wales, and they are widely regarded as a joke, and are basically useless. I don;t think that's a model we should be copying.
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windjammer
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 03:24:15 PM »

Definitely what Polnut and Cranberry have said, I don't see how I could support this bill right now.

But that was the same feeling with the Civil right acts, so maybe we will be able to reach to a compromise.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 03:29:57 PM »

I can't support it as it stands, but I think that we'll able to work to improve this.
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windjammer
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 03:48:28 PM »

One initial point I'd like to make is to point that out there are elected police commissioners in England and Wales, and they are widely regarded as a joke, and are basically useless. I don;t think that's a model we should be copying.

Elected county sheriffs are a consistent source of colorful stories in local politics in the US, so this is something that most American posters should be familiar with, too.
Wait, sheriffs really exist???
I thought it was a pure creation for cartoons.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 05:38:01 PM »

I offer an amendment to remove Section 4.1 and 4.2 of this bill.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 08:51:38 PM »

A quick look through this bill, and it's already way too far out of left field for me to support in anything resembling its current forms. Politicizing the police even more and making them subject to the whims of an elected body for many everyday doesn't strike me as a good idea at all.

There are some things in here I would definitely support, such as the ban on people with any involvement in bigoted groups serving in the force, but we'll need to cut down a LOT and perhaps add on some more acceptable provisions if we wish to do anything about the current situation in our country. Perhaps we can ensure that there is a special prosecutor to handle charges against the police independent of the force itself in all jurisdictions?
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 12:02:51 AM »

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Senators, you have 36 hours to object to Senator Lief's amendment.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2015, 12:06:05 AM »

I won't object - because it starts the work I wish to continue Tongue
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TNF
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 09:36:20 AM »

I object to the proposed amendment.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2015, 11:15:37 AM »

As Senator Polnut implied, yes this is a first step in the right direction. If the sponsor should however be hostile to any intentions to improve this - similar to this one here - then I don't really see a point in doing further work here, and it would save a lot of time if the Senator could just say so.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2015, 11:27:25 AM »

Senators, a vote is now open on Senator Lief's amendment. Please vote AYE, NAY or ABSTAIN.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2015, 11:41:53 AM »

Aye
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2015, 12:47:53 PM »
« Edited: March 19, 2015, 03:13:18 PM by Lief 🐋 »

Aye

If this amendment passes, I don't really have that many strong objections to the rest of this bill and would be willing to support it. I would hope that Senators are willing to put aside any partisan disagreements to pass this important legislation, so that we can put a check on the increasingly violent, discriminatory and out of control police culture in our country. The relations between the police and the communities they are meant to serve are reminiscent of apartheid South Africa in parts of our country, and this sort of legislation is desperately needed.
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windjammer
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 03:07:18 PM »

Aye
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 04:51:16 PM »

Aye
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 06:06:47 PM »

AYE
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