Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Gives Final Approval for Same-Sex Marriage

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Here's a real gem from a PCUSA minister last week.

Whatever the PCUSA's beliefs on gay marriage might be, I would hope they could come to a firm conclusion on whether or not Jesus was in fact a historical figure.

Wow.

[DC Al Fine]

Here's a real gem from a PCUSA minister last week.

Whatever the PCUSA's beliefs on gay marriage might be, I would hope they could come to a firm conclusion on whether or not Jesus was in fact a historical figure.

To take a page from Flannery O'Connor "If the resurrection is just a symbol, to hell with it"

[7,052,770]

Here's a real gem from a PCUSA minister last week.

Whatever the PCUSA's beliefs on gay marriage might be, I would hope they could come to a firm conclusion on whether or not Jesus was in fact a historical figure.

FF. I sure wish I'd been exposed to different strands of Christianity like this growing up.

[TJ in Oregon]

Here's a real gem from a PCUSA minister last week.

Whatever the PCUSA's beliefs on gay marriage might be, I would hope they could come to a firm conclusion on whether or not Jesus was in fact a historical figure.

FF. I sure wish I'd been exposed to different strands of Christianity like this growing up.

What is Christianity?

[user12345]

Here's a real gem from a PCUSA minister last week.

Whatever the PCUSA's beliefs on gay marriage might be, I would hope they could come to a firm conclusion on whether or not Jesus was in fact a historical figure.

Wow.

This guy really shouldn't be an ordained minister.

[Bojack Horseman]

As someone who grew up in the Methodist church, I'm pretty certain that the Methodists will never come around on this issue. In fact, most of the people I went to church with growing up (and yes, I'm an atheist nowadays) think that same-sex marriage will cause America to disappear off the face of the earth.

[Rockefeller GOP]

As someone who grew up in the Methodist church, I'm pretty certain that the Methodists will never come around on this issue. In fact, most of the people I went to church with growing up (and yes, I'm an atheist nowadays) think that same-sex marriage will cause America to disappear off the face of the earth.

Guessing you didn't grow up in the Methodist Church of 2015, though.  I mean it was 5 short years ago that no one influential in either party supported gay marriage.

[ilikeverin]

As someone who grew up in the Methodist church, I'm pretty certain that the Methodists will never come around on this issue. In fact, most of the people I went to church with growing up (and yes, I'm an atheist nowadays) think that same-sex marriage will cause America to disappear off the face of the earth.

Guessing you didn't grow up in the Methodist Church of 2015, though.  I mean it was 5 short years ago that no one influential in either party supported gay marriage.

Nah, I'm with Wolverine.  I grew up in the UMC, and attended a UMC church through 2012.  The Methodist church in the US tends to be pathologically afraid of rocking the boat; witness the obsession with attempting to find a "third way" when it comes to letting openly LGBT clergy into the church and permitting gay marriage:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/14/united-methodist-church-gay-marriage_n_6680290.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/united-methodist-church-moves-allow-lgbt-clergy-gay-marriage-1814812

Kennetha was actually one of my pastors for three years, and I feel pretty confident in saying that she personally supports gay marriage.  But, in order to get anything remotely decent done in the UMC, you have to include that sort of "third way" rhetoric that almost apologizes for the idea of letting gay people serve fully in the church.  The problem really isn't with the UMC in the US.  I suspect you'd be quite right that Methodists in the US would by a moderate margin (not as much as many of the other mainline denominations, because of the more Southern-slanted membership of the church) favor greater LGBT inclusiveness in the church, but more than 30% of the members of the UMC are not from the US, with most of them coming from Africa or the Phillippines.  And that proportion keeps growing and growing.

That said, I miss me my red hymnal, and sometimes I think about going and finding a Reconciling congregation when I next move.  (Or sneaking to Foundry UMC, which is notable for its strident activism, once and a while for the time being!)

[afleitch]

but more than 30% of the members of the UMC are not from the US, with most of them coming from Africa or the Phillippines.  And that proportion keeps growing and growing.

This sort of change and it's not unique to that church or even to the USA in terms of western Christianity is a potential breaker on any moves towards greater LGBT inclusiveness. The global church, outside of western nations or even western inclined church hierarchy is on the whole taking a more regressive stance on those matters, when a decade ago it wasn't even an item on any agenda. If there is continual foot dragging then many USA/European churches might not actually move towards the secular 'benchmark' on LGBT issues.

The big issue in the west is that particularly amongst young people, LGBT rights it now no longer about agreeing or disagreeing, but it's becoming a red line issue. I am greatly encouraged by a lot of young people and young Christians taking the position that it's almost incompatible to be a part of the human family and oppose LGBT people for who they are. It's the modern day equivalent of supporting racial theory or in built male superiority.

Choosing LGBT issues from the 80's to now as the hill to die on simply for short term benefit probably won't pay off in the long run, at least amongst western churches.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Congrats, Presbyterians.  This makes you officially less terrible. 

[MaxQue]

The problem really isn't with the UMC in the US.  I suspect you'd be quite right that Methodists in the US would by a moderate margin (not as much as many of the other mainline denominations, because of the more Southern-slanted membership of the church) favor greater LGBT inclusiveness in the church, but more than 30% of the members of the UMC are not from the US, with most of them coming from Africa or the Phillippines.  And that proportion keeps growing and growing.

Well, they will have to make a choice. Do they focus on USA and adopt policies than young people will like and attracted to them or they focus on third world backwards countries and start meprising their funders and US members?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

but more than 30% of the members of the UMC are not from the US, with most of them coming from Africa or the Phillippines.  And that proportion keeps growing and growing.

This sort of change and it's not unique to that church or even to the USA in terms of western Christianity is a potential breaker on any moves towards greater LGBT inclusiveness. The global church, outside of western nations or even western inclined church hierarchy is on the whole taking a more regressive stance on those matters, when a decade ago it wasn't even an item on any agenda. If there is continual foot dragging then many USA/European churches might not actually move towards the secular 'benchmark' on LGBT issues.

The big issue in the west is that particularly amongst young people, LGBT rights it now no longer about agreeing or disagreeing, but it's becoming a red line issue. I am greatly encouraged by a lot of young people and young Christians taking the position that it's almost incompatible to be a part of the human family and oppose LGBT people for who they are. It's the modern day equivalent of supporting racial theory or in built male superiority.

Choosing LGBT issues from the 80's to now as the hill to die on simply for short term benefit probably won't pay off in the long run, at least amongst western churches.

The Christian Right will find someone new to despise, they always do.  Now that non-religiouses are upwards of 1/3 of millennials I suspect that the "atheist/secular" agenda which has only been tangentially their target will start to feel their full "wrath".   

I mean... they've gone through race, political affiliation, sexuality... what's left? 

[Rockefeller GOP]

but more than 30% of the members of the UMC are not from the US, with most of them coming from Africa or the Phillippines.  And that proportion keeps growing and growing.

This sort of change and it's not unique to that church or even to the USA in terms of western Christianity is a potential breaker on any moves towards greater LGBT inclusiveness. The global church, outside of western nations or even western inclined church hierarchy is on the whole taking a more regressive stance on those matters, when a decade ago it wasn't even an item on any agenda. If there is continual foot dragging then many USA/European churches might not actually move towards the secular 'benchmark' on LGBT issues.

The big issue in the west is that particularly amongst young people, LGBT rights it now no longer about agreeing or disagreeing, but it's becoming a red line issue. I am greatly encouraged by a lot of young people and young Christians taking the position that it's almost incompatible to be a part of the human family and oppose LGBT people for who they are. It's the modern day equivalent of supporting racial theory or in built male superiority.

Choosing LGBT issues from the 80's to now as the hill to die on simply for short term benefit probably won't pay off in the long run, at least amongst western churches.

The Christian Right will find someone new to despise, they always do.  Now that non-religiouses are upwards of 1/3 of millennials I suspect that the "atheist/secular" agenda which has only been tangentially their target will start to feel their full "wrath".   

I mean... they've gone through race, political affiliation, sexuality... what's left? 

I don't think it's fair to tie deeply religious people with race-related "wrath."  I mean, with both slavery and the civil rights movement, some of the most deeply religious leaders and congregations were the first ones to get the ball rolling toward equality and more enlightened race relations..