Agricultural Policy Act of 2015 (Final vote)
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  Agricultural Policy Act of 2015 (Final vote)
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Author Topic: Agricultural Policy Act of 2015 (Final vote)  (Read 3265 times)
TNF
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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2015, 06:28:26 AM »

Could we not just discuss proposals for modifying this out in the open?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2015, 08:29:18 AM »

Could we not just discuss proposals for modifying this out in the open?

I don't mind - just to de-clutter debate. This was more about background as I was starting to feel a bit lost.

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TNF
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« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2015, 09:03:14 AM »

If you're feeling a bit lost, I'd encourage you to re-read the thread.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2015, 09:12:29 AM »
« Edited: April 14, 2015, 09:24:40 AM by Senator Polnut »

If you're feeling a bit lost, I'd encourage you to re-read the thread.

That's what I have been doing - I appreciate the input from Al, who gives me, a city person, the insights I need to form a strong enough opinion. I admit Ag policy has never been a strong suit. I'm getting there.

The two issues Al brings up are first up in my head. I also have no experience of seeing union-organised farmers. But, as been brought up, if you're self employed it gets a bit unnecessary, unless we're talking about farm workers, not farm owners. There's also the difference between small-scale local farming and huge industrial farms in workforce, management etc Otherwise, it would be a lobbying shop, more than anything else.

In relation to section 4 - I don't agree that it's pure pork, but it's definitely very, very close. Also don't like debate that has TBD when talking about funding. How much are we talking about here, I'm happy to enable more support for those areas, but equally, I'd want to know how much.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2015, 11:33:31 AM »

Well, I don't know where others are going with this bill, but I thought I'd put my stamp on it.

The big changes come in Section 4. I don't think funding research and development is worthwhile here. If agribusiness thinks going in the direction of vertical and indoor farming is feasible, corporations will be more than happy to fund the research themselves. That's why I've changed Section 4 to more broadly encompass "alternative farming." Since I believe most of these projects are more appropriately dealt with at the regional level, I've modeled the provisions of this section to leave things more open for the regions. Hopefully they will craft specific bills themselves and present them to the SoIA for approval, as happened last summer with homelessness bills when I was in that role (it actually worked very well and was a fun way to bring the regions and the federal government together).

As for the meat of what I'm proposing, I've shifted the focus on urban agriculture away from economics and more towards getting food to people who have barriers to access. I've also included a piece on agritourism. I've done a lot of research on agritourim in my academic life, and as long as agritourism does not completely displace agriculture itself (i.e., as long as it happens on working farms), it's a real boon for farmers as well as their larger rural communities. Visits to tourist farms can also encourage people, when they return home to the city, to buy local produce and think more about the food they eat. In all, there are a host of benefits. I hope the senate will strongly consider supporting each of these proposals.

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windjammer
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« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2015, 11:52:16 AM »

Senators have 36 hours to object.
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windjammer
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« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2015, 11:53:20 AM »

Well, to be honest, I support this amendment. That seems to be a good improvement.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2015, 11:57:19 AM »

Yes, this does strike me as workable as well.
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Blair
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« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2015, 02:39:18 PM »

The part about urban farms looks very good, and devolves more control back to smaller bodies which is good
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DemPGH
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« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2015, 03:08:42 PM »

Looks good to me. I know very little about agriculture, especially the business end of it, so I'll primarily pay attention to TNF and Al and take a back seat on this one.

I guess the only thing is, when we "make X-number of dollars available to the regions," do they ever do anything? Or don't they really have to? I'd as soon the federal government do it, if that's feasible. I mean that's kind of the whole point of what we're doing here.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2015, 03:26:05 PM »

Yes, they do. As long as the SoIA is willing to be in contact with the regional executives about it. It was actually very successful for me when I was in your cabinet, because it got all the regions talking about the issue too (at the time, it was homelessness). I think one region did not submit a plan, but even if one doesn't, we can assume that the funds would eventually make their way to the regions via some sort of non-playable action.

I also chose to keep the plans with the regions because many of the initiatives require collaboration with municipalities. The regions are better able to carry that out.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2015, 03:37:08 PM »

Yes, they do. As long as the SoIA is willing to be in contact with the regional executives about it. It was actually very successful for me when I was in your cabinet, because it got all the regions talking about the issue too (at the time, it was homelessness). I think one region did not submit a plan, but even if one doesn't, we can assume that the funds would eventually make their way to the regions via some sort of non-playable action.

I also chose to keep the plans with the regions because many of the initiatives require collaboration with municipalities. The regions are better able to carry that out.

Oh, okay. Thanks. Yeah, I'd lost track of how all that was going. As long as people are doing it, great.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2015, 05:05:43 PM »

The other issue about organising is to consider the impacts of the existing commodities markets on the ability of farmers to work collectively, when it risks undermining the competitiveness of Atlasian produce IF they try to uniformly push up the base price beyond the established market price.

However, I think Hagrid's amendment is a positive development and will support it.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2015, 08:02:31 AM »

It strikes me as if no one has taken on Al's impetus in regards of the possible un-necessity of the clause allowing farmers to collectively bargain with food processors, and that this could lead to courts ruling against marketing cooperatives. I do believe his legal analysis here on, but maybe someone else with knowledge on the matter could comment on this?
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2015, 08:13:31 AM »

I just don't know too much about it. Didn't really feel comfortable adding or removing anything from the text with regards to that.
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TNF
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« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2015, 08:44:58 AM »

Amendment is friendly.
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bore
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« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2015, 11:51:39 AM »

Hagrid's amendment is a very good step.

Just a few scattered points:

1. I especially like section 4.1. As has been hinted at earlier the economies of scale and the land cost issue mean that promoting urban food production is not about trying to increase the amount of food, or lower costs or anything. But allotments in particular encourage outdoor activity allow people to save money on food bills and generally make cities more pleasant.
2. I'm not entirely convinced about the agricultural tourism thing  but I'm willing to go with it if that's what the senate want.
3. I think the change to section 3 makes it more useful to the actual problems faced by agriculture at the moment, something I freely confess to, that is urban ignorance of basic farming.
4. Finally, as Al was mentioning before, surely farmers, by virtue of being independent farmers have the right to collectively bargain with whoever they like? I can understand supporting that though, as a way to stop the gradual increase of Big Agriculture.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2015, 12:54:20 PM »

I support the Hagrid's amendment. It's very sensible and a good improvement.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2015, 01:33:34 PM »

2. I'm not entirely convinced about the agricultural tourism thing  but I'm willing to go with it if that's what the senate want.

If you have Mendeley I can send you about 30 different articles, as well as my own paper... Tongue

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2015, 07:09:29 PM »

On the collective bargaining stuff, I can see the benefits in a general sense to ensure maximum benefit to Atlasian farmers. But of course, we can't endorse anything that will make our produce commercially nonviable. But putting that to one side, it strikes me as a superfluous element that will do little harm by being there.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2015, 08:45:21 AM »

I see. Thank you for coming back to this.

I personally would be done there, I'm perfectly fine with the current version and have nothing to add here on.
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windjammer
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« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2015, 05:54:10 PM »

Hagrid's amendment has been adopted.

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TNF
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« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2015, 07:05:08 PM »

I motion for a final vote.
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windjammer
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« Reply #73 on: April 18, 2015, 06:04:22 AM »

Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2015, 03:15:52 PM »

Looks fine for me.
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