Most Conservative and Liberal Presidents since 1964
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Computer89
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« on: March 21, 2015, 04:45:26 PM »
« edited: March 21, 2015, 05:06:46 PM by Computer09 »

Presidents
1. George W Bush(Most Conservative)
2. Ronald Reagan
3. Bill Clinton
4. George HW Bush
5. Richard Nixon
6. Gerald Ford
7. Barrack Obama
8 . Jimmy Carter
9.  Lyndon B Johnson(Most Liberal)


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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 04:50:14 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 05:06:29 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican
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Blair
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 05:14:23 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 05:18:37 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 05:23:46 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.

I wouldnt say too Conservative as I agree with more of those policies and I consider myself a moderate. But Obama signed Obama Care, Refuses to invade ISIS territory(I dont mean nation build I mean go in defeat ISIS and leave), Supports Amnesty, Wants to raise taxes etc. For civil liberties Conservatives and Liberals should equally support them so I would say its more of a Liberatirian thing now.
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 05:32:40 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.

I wouldnt say too Conservative as I agree with more of those policies and I consider myself a moderate. But Obama signed Obama Care, Refuses to invade ISIS territory(I dont mean nation build I mean go in defeat ISIS and leave), Supports Amnesty, Wants to raise taxes etc. For civil liberties Conservatives and Liberals should equally support them so I would say its more of a Liberatirian thing now.

Obamacare was a bailout to insurance and a betrayal to the progressive goal of public health care-even the lousy 1993 Clinton plan let state's set up single-payer systems with their Medicare. And he's launching drones killing thousands of people with mercy over ISIS even though it's clear another Iraqi conflict would be extremely foolish. The lack of ground troops is, in my opinion, a cheap way to have war without sparking a antiwar movement. I see no sign Obama wants to raise taxes; I mean, he extended the 2001 Bush tax cuts when even some of the Blue Dog's thought it was time for an increase. Every president since Reagan has supported amnesty.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 05:49:37 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.

I wouldnt say too Conservative as I agree with more of those policies and I consider myself a moderate. But Obama signed Obama Care, Refuses to invade ISIS territory(I dont mean nation build I mean go in defeat ISIS and leave), Supports Amnesty, Wants to raise taxes etc. For civil liberties Conservatives and Liberals should equally support them so I would say its more of a Liberatirian thing now.

Obamacare was a bailout to insurance and a betrayal to the progressive goal of public health care-even the lousy 1993 Clinton plan let state's set up single-payer systems with their Medicare. And he's launching drones killing thousands of people with mercy over ISIS even though it's clear another Iraqi conflict would be extremely foolish. The lack of ground troops is, in my opinion, a cheap way to have war without sparking a antiwar movement. I see no sign Obama wants to raise taxes; I mean, he extended the 2001 Bush tax cuts when even some of the Blue Dog's thought it was time for an increase. Every president since Reagan has supported amnesty.


For the ISIS situation cant you go in destroy them like we did to the Taliban in 2001 then leave immediately instead of occupying the place for 10 years.
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hopper
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 06:18:49 PM »

1.) Reagan
2.) Bush W.
3.) Ford
4.) Bush H.W.
5.) Nixon
6.) Clinton
7.) Carter
8.) Obama
9.) LBJ
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Goldwater
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 07:02:20 PM »

1. Ronald Reagan
2. George W Bush
3. George HW Bush
4. Richard Nixon
5. Gerald Ford
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. Barack Obama
9. Lyndon B Johnson

Or something like that.
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Blair
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2015, 04:32:58 AM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.

I wouldnt say too Conservative as I agree with more of those policies and I consider myself a moderate. But Obama signed Obama Care, Refuses to invade ISIS territory(I dont mean nation build I mean go in defeat ISIS and leave), Supports Amnesty, Wants to raise taxes etc. For civil liberties Conservatives and Liberals should equally support them so I would say its more of a Liberatirian thing now.

Obamacare was a bailout to insurance and a betrayal to the progressive goal of public health care-even the lousy 1993 Clinton plan let state's set up single-payer systems with their Medicare. And he's launching drones killing thousands of people with mercy over ISIS even though it's clear another Iraqi conflict would be extremely foolish. The lack of ground troops is, in my opinion, a cheap way to have war without sparking a antiwar movement. I see no sign Obama wants to raise taxes; I mean, he extended the 2001 Bush tax cuts when even some of the Blue Dog's thought it was time for an increase. Every president since Reagan has supported amnesty.

As Bill Maher said why do people think 'yes we can' ended in 2008, and they could some how just expect Obama to fulfill his legacy.

Do you remember what happened to Clinton's 1993 healthcare plan? It failed. Do you know what happened to Obama's? It passed. Blame the congress for watering it down, and just being a pain the ass.

FFS whatever Obama does he gets bashed, he's got rid of the highest level of Bush Tax cuts whilst allowing the middle class to keep a tax cut. He's managed to turn around the economy, and actually create growth.

He's opened relations with Cuba-something Clinton never did. He's negotiated with Iran-something Clinton never did. He actually embraced LGBT rights rather than passing DADT like Clinton did. He didn't take a heavy axe to welfare, and then claim he's being like RFK-like Clinton did
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 07:50:22 AM »

How could Bush the Younger possibly be the most Conservative president?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 08:59:35 AM »
« Edited: March 22, 2015, 09:02:58 AM by Mechaman »

This is a largely fruitless exercise I believe.  Politics are generally determined more by the context of the times than by the means adopted by the politicians themselves.  This is why it is important to stay awake in history class kids.

Anyway, this really depends on how much weight one gives to the "metrics".  I mean by one standard Ronald Reagan is the most conservative President and by another it could easily be Gerry Ford.  You could even somehow argue that Barack Obama is the most left wing president since FDR.

And really it is often quite ingenuous to suggest that a politician's ideology be judged solely off of their results.  Most people who are read up on Nixon would laugh off any suggestion that the man was remotely liberal just because he signed the EPA, talked to China, and tried to pass what was basically a massive handout to the medical insurance company (which a lot of idiots, even some with tv shows, think was "universal healthcare").  And sure, you could probably argue that at least compared to those who followed him LBJ was some sort of true social democrat, but a lot of his liberal drift as president (after years of being a pretty moderate if not conservative Texas Democrat) was more in response to the demands of the JFK loving liberals of his party than that he was always a closet super liberal who was just itching to sign the Civil Rights Act.

And, if you look at things from CelticEmpire's perspective, you could argue that George Bush the younger was actually significantly to the left of Ronald Reagan, Gerry Ford, and yes even Jimmy Carter in regards to the scope of the government.  Even some of his views on the "budget surplus" of the Clinton years ("we are taking too much from the people") could be seen as quite left if you subscribe to a very paleoconservative/libertarian orthodoxy.

To suggest that there is an objective way to rank presidents, especially given the continuous shifting of the means and reader bias, is just hilarious.

EDIT: But if you want my personal opinion, all of these presidents are right wing of course.
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 11:48:34 AM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 01:34:06 PM »

[1] Reagan
[2] Bush II
[3] Bush I
[4] Nixon
[5] Ford
[6] Clinton
[7] Carter
[8] Obama
[9] LBJ
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 01:37:50 PM »

1. George W Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Barack Obama
6. Richard Nixon
7. Bill Clinton/Jimmy Carter
8 . Jimmy Carter/Bill Clinton
9.  Lyndon B Johnson

It wasn't entirely sure about seven and eight.

How was Bill Clinton more Liberal then Obama,Carter, Nixon


Bill Clinton- Cut the growth of government more then any president then IKE
                   Signed NAFTA
                   Welfare Reform of 1996
                   Deregulation
                   DOMA
                   

If it werent for Social Issues he would basically be a Republican


Clinton was indeed way too conservative. But Carter's domestic policy was also on the right-deregulating transport, austerity, budget-cutting. Also, Clinton at least passed a few more progressive measures (CHIP, Americorps, environmental legislation) whereas Carter did almost nothing but fold to the right. On the hand, Carter's foreign policy was relatively progressive, as he did not launch any pointless military "interventions" whereas Clinton pointlessly bombed Mid East countries through 1998. So, it's a draw.

But whereas Carter and Clinton had certain diplomatic successes in promoting peace, Obama has almost totally accepted the Bush Doctrine. Also, his civil liberties is atrocious, and except for the token stimulus, his fiscal program has mostly been austerity. He wouldn't even repeal the Bush tax cuts with a deeply Democratic Congress.

I wouldnt say too Conservative as I agree with more of those policies and I consider myself a moderate. But Obama signed Obama Care, Refuses to invade ISIS territory(I dont mean nation build I mean go in defeat ISIS and leave), Supports Amnesty, Wants to raise taxes etc. For civil liberties Conservatives and Liberals should equally support them so I would say its more of a Liberatirian thing now.

Obamacare was a bailout to insurance and a betrayal to the progressive goal of public health care-even the lousy 1993 Clinton plan let state's set up single-payer systems with their Medicare. And he's launching drones killing thousands of people with mercy over ISIS even though it's clear another Iraqi conflict would be extremely foolish. The lack of ground troops is, in my opinion, a cheap way to have war without sparking a antiwar movement. I see no sign Obama wants to raise taxes; I mean, he extended the 2001 Bush tax cuts when even some of the Blue Dog's thought it was time for an increase. Every president since Reagan has supported amnesty.

What Obama is doing right now in the air campaign against the ISIS savages is no different than what Clinton did against Serbians-if anything it is even more justified.  And Obama did let the Bush tax cuts expire for those making over 400k in a situation where a middle-class tax increase would be very politically unpalatable.
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Blair
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 01:39:23 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 01:59:49 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam

Has nothing to do with liberal or Conservative. Only Libertarians are consistently anti war and they aren't even on the political spectrum
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2015, 02:41:53 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam

For a minute I was going to concede this, but no. Obama delayed the end of two "police actions" at the last minute, and is now gearing up for another Iraq war.
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 01:05:38 AM »

1. Ronald Reagan
2. George W Bush
3. George HW Bush
4. Richard Nixon
5. Gerald Ford
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. Barack Obama
9. Lyndon Johnson
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 02:08:21 AM »

Most Conservative to Most Liberal:
1. Ronald Reagan
2. Bill Clinton
3. Gerald Ford
4. George W Bush
5. George HW Bush
5. Jimmy Carter
6. Barack Obama
7. Lyndon B. Johnson

None of these presidents are Conservative at all from my standpoint. The last real conservative was Coolidge. Reagan talked the game, but didn't follow through enough. It would be different if he never said he was influenced from people like Hayek, Mises, Friedman, and Walker.

Clinton is also supremely underrated. Dude was pretty damn fiscally conservative for a Democrat. Sorta like Kennedy.

How was Hoover not a Conservative
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Blair
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2015, 02:19:23 AM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam

Has nothing to do with liberal or Conservative. Only Libertarians are consistently anti war and they aren't even on the political spectrum

In that case the question should be about domestic policy
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2015, 01:51:02 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam

Has nothing to do with liberal or Conservative. Only Libertarians are consistently anti war and they aren't even on the political spectrum

In that case the question should be about domestic policy

Even if it's not, where do you get the logical notion or any historical evidence/reasoning to suggest that anti-war is an inherently more liberal position?  Or even civil rights, for that matter.
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Blair
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2015, 02:20:56 PM »

1. Reagan-arch-mage of conservatism
2. George W.Bush-some social reform that wasn't awful
3. George HW Bush
4. Gerald Ford
5. Richard Nixon
6. Bill Clinton
7. Jimmy Carter
8. LBJ
9 Barack Obama


The president who told the banks he was on their side more liberal than the President who launched a war on poverty and ceased Jim Crow apartheid?

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam

Has nothing to do with liberal or Conservative. Only Libertarians are consistently anti war and they aren't even on the political spectrum

In that case the question should be about domestic policy

Even if it's not, where do you get the logical notion or any historical evidence/reasoning to suggest that anti-war is an inherently more liberal position?  Or even civil rights, for that matter.

FFS sorry that I was wrong about LBJ. He was the most liberal President ever, and I withdraw my remarks about Obama. Better?
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2015, 02:44:07 PM »


Nearly tripling the top tax bracket, incredulous spending, massive protectionism, lambasting the laissez-faire system.

Anyway, my rankings:
1. George W. Bush
2. Ronald Reagan
3. George HW Bush
4. Bill Clinton
5. Gerald Ford
6. Barrack Obama
7. Richard Nixon
8. Jimmy Carter
9. Lyndon Johnson

5 and 6 could probably flip. Public image played a huge role in that ordering.
7 and 8 could probably flip too considering they were extremely similar. Carter obviously adored by those who love "progressive foreign policy" but elements of conservatism on social issues unlike Nixon.

Ultimately, they're all pretty close. Ford and Carter are quite close despite being polar opposites for the time period while Bush and Obama really aren't that far apart in how they governed.
LBJ is the only real obvious placement on the list IMO.
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