Alabama: Where judges sentence criminals to death over a jury's wishes
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  Alabama: Where judges sentence criminals to death over a jury's wishes
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Author Topic: Alabama: Where judges sentence criminals to death over a jury's wishes  (Read 1609 times)
Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« on: March 21, 2015, 10:35:00 PM »

So apparently, Alabama has this super cool judicial override rule. If a jury decides that you should spend life in prison instead of being put to death, a judge can say, "no, you know what, the jury got it wrong, I say you die." And then you go to jail and you get put to death.

This is a thing that has happened over 100 times in Alabama. Alabama is one of only three states that allows judicial override, and is the only one that has done it in practice. Over a hundred times.

This seems like an incredibly unconstitutional thing. The U.S. Supreme Court has considered taking the issue on, but no dice so far.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/us/justices-may-weigh-cases-of-alabama-judges-overriding-juries.html?_r=1

https://www.aclu.org/blog/capital-punishment-criminal-law-reform-prisoners-rights/how-did-lifelong-prison-sentence-iraq-v
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 11:08:46 PM »

     Wow, that's bad. I would seriously consider nullifying if I were on a jury in Alabama.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 11:22:37 PM »

Wow, that's bad. I would seriously consider nullifying if I were on a jury in Alabama.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 12:02:26 AM »

No doubt this started with racist implications as a black jury might not sentence to death an evil blackie that killed a white woman.

The thought of that truly terrifies Alabama whites.

But it shouldn't.  It's really about the small group of white 'good old boys' maintaining power and keeping you afraid, desperate, and divided over arbitrary nonsense like skin color...because they know exactly how wrong the whole setup is and how badly it ends for them when blacks AND whites unite and find out rather quickly the real man behind the curtain.

[/saturdaynightsagedelight]
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Zioneer
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 12:33:23 AM »

Yeah that's terrifying, and literally the definition of judicial activism.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 02:50:24 AM »

    Wow, that's bad. I would seriously consider nullifying if I were on a jury in Alabama.

And the judge can just overrule your nullification! Fun state to face a court in.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 06:57:02 AM »

So apparently, Alabama has this super cool judicial override rule. If a jury decides that you should spend life in prison instead of being put to death, a judge can say, "no, you know what, the jury got it wrong, I say you die." And then you go to jail and you get put to death.

I believe Florida and Delaware judges can also override the jury's verdict, but it seems they are not that quick to impose death over life as their colleagues in Alabama.

Obviously elected judges (like in Alabama) are more inclined to pull this in order to appeal to their voters ("look how tough on crime I am"), while in Delaware (where judges are appointed) they issue more "life in prison over death" overrides than the other way around.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2015, 07:00:00 AM »

By the way, here's a bit old (from 2001), but still relevant article about Alabama judges and their approach: http://prospect.org/article/judge-lynch-mob
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2015, 08:51:00 AM »

Yes, Alabama is a scary place where respect for anything actually American ends at flag wavin' and bumper stickerin'
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Simfan34
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2015, 09:56:28 AM »

Isn't sentencing the judge's responsibility, and not the jury's?
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2015, 09:58:13 AM »

Isn't sentencing the judge's responsibility, and not the jury's?

I believe there are differences in the general rule when it comes to potential capital punishment. 
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 11:36:15 AM »

Isn't sentencing the judge's responsibility, and not the jury's?

I believe there are differences in the general rule when it comes to potential capital punishment. 

Yeah, most states have penalty phases for juries only for death penalty and certain civil cases.

However, I don't think there's any guarantee in the constitution that a death penalty decision can't be rendered by a judge instead. I think this law is ridiculous and should be abolished, but if I was on a jury I'd be far more comfortable with a judge sentencing a killer to death against my wishes than with letting that killer go to prevent it.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 02:38:54 PM »

Isn't sentencing the judge's responsibility, and not the jury's?

The death penalty is different. I don't understand how Alabama isn't blatantly violating Supreme Court precedent here. In 2002, in Ring v. Arizona, the Supreme Court ruled that only a jury can find the aggravating factors to impose the death penalty (otherwise, there is a violation of the Sixth Amendment). A judge can only impose the death penalty once the jury has found aggravating factors and recommended said penalty. In the majority on that case, Justice Ginsburg wrote the decision (with Stevens, Scalia, Kennedy, Souter, and Thomas in the majority). Only O'Connor and Rehnquist were in dissent on that case.

I can't see how Alabama isn't in violation of that ruling. Of course, this would hardly be the first time that the state of Alabama refuses to respect and abide by the United States Constitution, so I suppose no one should surprised here. There's no reason why SCOTUS shouldn't summarily rule against Alabama in this case.
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 01:13:36 AM »

what makes this worse is the Alabama judges are elected, not appointed. And it is always good to kill some criminals in an election year in Alabama.
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2015, 01:28:52 AM »

Isn't sentencing the judge's responsibility, and not the jury's?

The death penalty is different. I don't understand how Alabama isn't blatantly violating Supreme Court precedent here. In 2002, in Ring v. Arizona, the Supreme Court ruled that only a jury can find the aggravating factors to impose the death penalty (otherwise, there is a violation of the Sixth Amendment). A judge can only impose the death penalty once the jury has found aggravating factors and recommended said penalty. In the majority on that case, Justice Ginsburg wrote the decision (with Stevens, Scalia, Kennedy, Souter, and Thomas in the majority). Only O'Connor and Rehnquist were in dissent on that case.

I can't see how Alabama isn't in violation of that ruling. Of course, this would hardly be the first time that the state of Alabama refuses to respect and abide by the United States Constitution, so I suppose no one should surprised here. There's no reason why SCOTUS shouldn't summarily rule against Alabama in this case.

As I understand it, Ring said that the judge could not go beyond the facts found by the jury in determining appropriate sentencing. The jury must find that the guilty party is eligible for the death penalty, but they do not need to recommend it.
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