MA: Fix the Constitution Act (Final Vote)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'd like to keep the ballot initiative process.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'd like to keep the ballot initiative process.

Go ahead and introduce any amendments you think would improve the bill.

I will as soon as I can navigate exactly what is being changed so I know how to put it back in.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Amendment to Article IV:

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I have updated it to 25%.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Twenty-five percent seems reasonable, though I'm still somewhat skeptical of the need for such a provision. Would you mind explaining your rationale for including this?

While not used often, there have been times when a particular bill creates a great deal of controversy, and people become active in debating and organizing on the question.  It is good for activity and engagement within the region to have these questions brought before the public once in a while.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aye

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aye

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is the basis for the description of the governor's powers in article 1, section 3?  I'm just wondering if there are any changes there from current law.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Two issues I see here:

"Commanding the militia" when this militia is not otherwise established or described in the Regional Constitution.

and

Exclusive authority over the voting booth, which would make it impossible to conduct an election if the governor was for whatever reason not available.  Also the region at one point iirc enacted conditions for a separate voting booth administrator in cases where there seemed to be a conflict of interest, and this would prohibit that.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Thank you for the response, but I believe there is a contradiction here between Article I and IV, and the language gives exclusive authority to the governor in terms of appointments (Lt Gov and Judicial) which are presently, by tradition if not by law, subject to assembly approval. I'll see if I can come up with something to address this.

I am not sure about giving the assembly the express authority to call up a militia without clarifying this power further. I'll have to think about that.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

ok, here is an amendment for that:

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Also this -
(this can be considered part of the same amendment or separate, depending on whether there is consensus)

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I have been asked to put forward an amendment to restore the balanced budget language:

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm not unalterably opposed to a balanced budget provision, but I feel like there are some issues with this that need to be rectified before I can support it. First, I think what constitutes an "emergency" needs to be clearly defined. Second, I feel the two-thirds threshold is unnecessary: if there is a genuine emergency, we shouldn't be restricting the ability of the government to respond to that emergency. (In any case, 2/3 of 5 is 3.33, which rounds down to 3, so this threshold accomplishes very little.) Third, I don't think it's necessary to establish a "Mideast Emergency Fund" in the actual text of the Constitution: this could be better provided for by law and only adds unnecessary length to the document. Fourth, from a stylistic standpoint, the proposed text is somewhat bulky. In the interests of brevity and maintaining uniformity throughout the Constitution, I think this should be condensed, such inelegant phrases as "and/or" removed, and percentages replaced with fractions or with their everyday equivalents.

I agree that it could be improved.  Maybe we could remove the "emergency" language and just say spending beyond revenue requires a 3/4 vote.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If an emergency occurs, and there is no emergency fund left, then the funds could be borrowed temporarily and counted for the next budget year - so long as we can rely on the assembly to remember to stick this expenditure in the next budget.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What do people think about the "suspend all other legislation in debate" part?  Is that necessary?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'd like to modify the amendment to section III as follows:

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

A good point made about the fund being better as a matter of statute, and the "appropriate measures" so I will modify this again:

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We can vote on this whatever.   I  will just say that, it being somewhat controversial, it may make it harder to get the Constitution ratified if we remove this part of the Constitution.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What does everyone think of specifically naming circumstances in which the 2/3 rule can be discarded?

I don't see the point of that.  If there is a general consensus it important enough, then the assembly will be able to override it.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What does everyone think of specifically naming circumstances in which the 2/3 rule can be discarded?

I don't see the point of that.  If there is a general consensus it important enough, then the assembly will be able to override it.

The point is that we cannot necessarily depend upon politicians to be reasonable in times of crisis. Suppose, for example, that the Stock Market crashed tomorrow (not an implausible scenario with our current GM): swift and decisive action would be required to address this emergency, and it very well might require deficit spending. Because progressives and conservatives differ greatly on how to respond to such a crisis, however, it might not be possible to respond quickly enough with the 2/3 rule in place. As a result, the economy plunges into Depression and the Assembly is too deadlocked to do anything about it.

My concern is that building a consensus on sensitive budgetary issues may not always be as easy as this amendment assumes. What this ultimately comes down to is whether you trust politicians to act maturely: I do not. Unless there is some provision to prevent a government shutdown during a state of emergency, I cannot support this proposal.

If people agree that deficit spending is required, they can waive the balanced budget rule. It doesn't require that 2/3 agree on how to spend the money.

If you can't count on the representatives of the region to be reasonable, then the people should elect new representatives.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

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If there is an emergency, and there isn't a 2/3 majority in the assembly, should the voters have to wait until the next election cycle to implement a budget that would address it? Might be too late.

Agreed. Look at what happened during the Great Depression: by the time the voters had a chance to replace Hoover, unemployment was at 24%.

We have elections every 2 months.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aye

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Unless there are any further suggestions, I will call a vote on this bill in approximately 24 hours.

I don't mean to be antagonistic, but if you do so, you can expect legal action.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

looks like this is the final version:

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(continued in next post)
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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

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