Should Bushie be banned?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Hopefully gully finds something about grumps so we won't have to read his posts anymore.

The iggie button is your friend, friend.

[WalterMitty]

hopefully bushie has been banned from papa's bank account.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

It's hard to feel too bad for Papa and Mama as long as they keep paying for Bushie to nap all day and work for two weeks at a time. I know Papa seems like a tragic figure, but surely if he wanted to, he could tell Bushie he's done supporting him unless Mama also doesn't allow Papa to do with his money what he wants, sort of like she doesn't let Bushie in the kitchen.

[J-Mann]

You guys apparently don't understand why posters are banned, and why they are not, and the process that leads to one result or the other.

opebo was banned because Gully decided to play Sherlock Holmes and find stuff on a forum unrelated to this one.

What can Gully find out about you, Steve.  Or others? 

That's what happened to Opebo!?

[Oakvale]

Probably. It won't really matter since I assume he'll continue his nonsense on Facebook or whatever other medium he can but at least we won't be involved when he dies. Much like the weekly "I'm about to kill myself" threads (this is a slower version), some things really shouldn't be allowed on the forum to protect ourselves from scrutiny, not to mention the uncomfortable voyeurism in both cases.

You guys apparently don't understand why posters are banned, and why they are not, and the process that leads to one result or the other.

opebo was banned because Gully decided to play Sherlock Holmes and find stuff on a forum unrelated to this one.

What can Gully find out about you, Steve.  Or others? 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Says the IRC Nazi who  must know everything going on there 24/7.

[© tweed]

You guys apparently don't understand why posters are banned, and why they are not, and the process that leads to one result or the other.

we'd love to read a detailed explanation of the process, from start to finish.  that would dissuade me of the notion that the above is true because the Moderators want it that way.

that is, if there is a Process, it is kept secret; or, even better, there really isn't any Process at all, or at least, the Process is so hopelessly contradictory that the Mods can more or less ban whomever they like.

as for the final hammer: Nym/Leip have proven to be nothing but rubber stamps.

[Mr. Morden]

as for the final hammer: Nym/Leip have proven to be nothing but rubber stamps.

Then why did it take so long for opebo to be banned?  A majority of mods wanted him gone three years ago, but Nym wouldn't do it.

[© tweed]

I'm glad you had to fight for it, at least.  though I can't quite take anything you say about how x or y situation went down because there's no public record.

Hell, even the FBI declassifies embarrassing documents after a long periods of time.  why not declassify conversation on the Mod secret board that are older, than, say, 18 months?  ya'll know we can't stop you from redacting the bad parts -- but it would be a nice gesture.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm glad you had to fight for it, at least.  though I can't quite take anything you say about how x or y situation went down because there's no public record.

If you don't believe what mods say about what happens on the mod board, then on what basis do you claim "Nym/Leip have proven to be nothing but rubber stamps"?

[Torie]

You guys apparently don't understand why posters are banned, and why they are not, and the process that leads to one result or the other.

we'd love to read a detailed explanation of the process, from start to finish.  that would dissuade me of the notion that the above is true because the Moderators want it that way.

that is, if there is a Process, it is kept secret; or, even better, there really isn't any Process at all, or at least, the Process is so hopelessly contradictory that the Mods can more or less ban whomever they like.

as for the final hammer: Nym/Leip have proven to be nothing but rubber stamps.

I believe I have outlined the process before, as have others, including Morden. It's no secret. Posters hit the Cave radar screen, after they rack up a bunch of infraction points, or do something egregious, or have a pattern of egregious behavior (at least as viewed by some), or are believed to be a sock. Spammers generally get bounced without further ado.

Then there is a discussion of the subject poster in the dock by those Mods who choose to participate in a thread, discussing the merits, and in the case of some of us, what the precedents are, so we have some consistency in our actions. Sometimes there is a discussion about whether the infraction points have been handed out in an even handed way. Death points are certainly not alone determinative, but rather a mechanism to precipitate consideration of how to handle the infractor. Sometimes a formal poll is taken.

At some point in this process, at a time of his choosing, Nym makes a decision as to what to do, really acting in the role of a judge in a bench trial. In my experience, he never bans, absent a substantial consensus of the Mods to go in that direction, although it need not necessarily be unanimous, but sometimes the dissent of one Mod is enough to slow the wielding of the ax. Typically, in the more difficult cases, a formal warning is given before a ban, particularly a perma-ban, but not necessarily always, and both Nym and DAVE have expressed the desire to typically give a warning first in such instances, but it is not a hard and fast rule. Opebo's demise was mostly the handiwork of DAVE, and the perception that he was threatening his business model and revenue stream which made the decision unanimous, with me being absent. That was an unusual case.

It's really that simple. Oh one other thing. Since I have been in the Cave, no Mod has lied to the Forum about what goes on in there. You may choose to believe that or not. That part I can't control. But I like to think I have some reputation for honesty around here. Thanks.

[Torie]

How do we know if we are being "investigated" by mods? I racked up some points at one time (thankfully I've been doing better).

You don't, unless some Mod privately tips you off, or are given a formal warning. You are aware of course of infraction points given. It is hard for me to imagine a poster around here not being aware that they are skating on thin ice however.

Oh, at the moment, things are quite calm in the Cave. There is a discussion of course about what to do with the Update, but absolutely no discussion of banning Bushie. That would be wholly inappropriate. You need to have a substantial history of violating the terms of use, or do something outrageous. Bushie does not fit into that category.

[Torie]

If you don't mind saying, if you had to take a guess, what would say a mod vote on the question of a total Update ban would look like?

No, that would not be appropriate. There are varying shades of grey about it, as it were. Badger has publicly stated however that the Update should be left alone, and I over the course of time have expressed hostility to it. I will leave it at that.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Please continue to tinker with and pull the strings of your minions in Hudson.  The internets are just fine.  Thx.

[© tweed]

You may choose to believe that or not. That part I can't control. But I like to think I have some reputation for honesty around here. Thanks.

you do.  how would you like to start a discussion with your fellow Moderators about declassifying "Mod Cave" discussions that are older than, say, 12 months?  18 months?

[BaconBacon96]

Bushie used to be a moderator? Jesus Christ.

[Mr. Morden]

How do we know if we are being "investigated" by mods?

You join the IRC chat, and wait for mods to leak their discussions to you.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Bushie used to be a moderator? Jesus Christ.

In 2008, BushOklahoma was a mod, Inks was one of the most popular people on the forum, and Jedi was above water as well.

[Mr. Morden]

Bushie used to be a moderator? Jesus Christ.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=62495

[Mr. Morden]

Also, things have changed around here:

Congrats Bush!

Thanks, Inks.  You're a real friend, even though we disagree on some issues.

What's the problem with this decision?  He seems competent and level-headed enough to preside over a few boards that don't tend to see much activity anyway.  I have no problem with BushOklahoma, and he certainly can't be blamed for Jamespol.

[Torie]

You may choose to believe that or not. That part I can't control. But I like to think I have some reputation for honesty around here. Thanks.

you do.  how would you like to start a discussion with your fellow Moderators about declassifying "Mod Cave" discussions that are older than, say, 12 months?  18 months?

I don't think that would be a popular idea. It would have a chilling effect on candid exchanges, and would consume time to do it. The process is not like a public trial, but more like the judicial conference that appellate judges and the Supreme Court have, that nobody attends but themselves. It certainly should not be done retroactively, since the Mods that participated had an expectation of confidentiality as to what they said.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Torie...I believe on the inside you're a wise old woman with some attitude.  But like your FABULOUSNESS that you hid so long...you insist on drenching your advice in manly reserved arrogance as if you are dispensing diamond shaped turds for us to marvel at (thats what Im doing to you right now).  And I know this because I actually came out before you . And I was just the same (still am....but no worries...I am very self conscious of all my psychoanalysis but guuuurl i cant help myself)

I mean...Grumps is more sassy than you and that guy would run soooo fast from anything phallic near him.

If you started your posts with 'mmmmm GUUUUURL one time when I was at court' everybody would loove you...except Naso.