If a Minor Outlying Island were to become populated...

[Vega]

If a Minor Outlying Island, let's say Wake Island, were to hit a population of 1,000+ people, would it stay a minor outlying island that is Unorganized and Unincorporated territory? Or would it become incorporated and maybe organized in addition to being removed from the "Minor Outlying" classification?

If not then, what would the magic population number have to be for reclassification?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Why would it become incorporated? Palmyra Atoll is the only incorporated territory.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Both Incorporation and Organization require an Act of Congress to happen.  Minor Outlying Island is merely a statistical classification that the executive branch could change whenever it wished, and probably would if any of those islands became inhabited.  Incidentally, an Unorganized need not be unorganized. An Organized territory is one which has its organization come from an Organic Act passed by Congress.  American Samoa has chosen to not be Organized because it prefers the flexibility of having its local government not be defined by an Act of Congress.  Incorporation only means that the territory is such that the Constitution automatically applies.  Until the Insular Cases after the Spanish-American War where we gained colonies instead of territory, the distinction was unheard of, and arguably it should never have been heard.

[Vega]

Both Incorporation and Organization require an Act of Congress to happen.  Minor Outlying Island is merely a statistical classification that the executive branch could change whenever it wished, and probably would if any of those islands became inhabited.  Incidentally, an Unorganized need not be unorganized. An Organized territory is one which has its organization come from an Organic Act passed by Congress.  American Samoa has chosen to not be Organized because it prefers the flexibility of having its local government not be defined by an Act of Congress.  Incorporation only means that the territory is such that the Constitution automatically applies.  Until the Insular Cases after the Spanish-American War where we gained colonies instead of territory, the distinction was unheard of, and arguably it should never have been heard.

Thanks; what would the President change it to then?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Probably it would just become an unorganized territory. However the idea that any of those islands would be settled in the future is fanciful in the extreme. They're just too small and remote to be worth settling.

[Vega]

Probably it would just become an unorganized territory. However the idea that any of those islands would be settled in the future is fanciful in the extreme. They're just too small and remote to be worth settling.

Yeah, I know. I was just thinking about what things would have been like if we had kept one of the more populated Guano Island chains (which feature populations on some small islands today of 1,000+ people). Funny to think that if we had, there might be a Governor elected by less then 10,000 people. Or maybe they would just have mayors for the individual islands with councils instead of one big more "central government" for all the islands in the group.

I wanted to use a current island though to avoid venturing into alternate history.

[angus]

Both Incorporation and Organization require an Act of Congress to happen.  Minor Outlying Island is merely a statistical classification that the executive branch could change whenever it wished, and probably would if any of those islands became inhabited.  Incidentally, an Unorganized need not be unorganized. An Organized territory is one which has its organization come from an Organic Act passed by Congress.  American Samoa has chosen to not be Organized because it prefers the flexibility of having its local government not be defined by an Act of Congress.  Incorporation only means that the territory is such that the Constitution automatically applies.  Until the Insular Cases after the Spanish-American War where we gained colonies instead of territory, the distinction was unheard of, and arguably it should never have been heard.

Fascinating.  I am constantly amazed by your encyclopedic knowledge of minutiae.  Seriously.

I have one question, though.  Why do you suggest that the cases should not have been heard?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Both Incorporation and Organization require an Act of Congress to happen.  Minor Outlying Island is merely a statistical classification that the executive branch could change whenever it wished, and probably would if any of those islands became inhabited.  Incidentally, an Unorganized need not be unorganized. An Organized territory is one which has its organization come from an Organic Act passed by Congress.  American Samoa has chosen to not be Organized because it prefers the flexibility of having its local government not be defined by an Act of Congress.  Incorporation only means that the territory is such that the Constitution automatically applies.  Until the Insular Cases after the Spanish-American War where we gained colonies instead of territory, the distinction was unheard of, and arguably it should never have been heard.

Fascinating.  I am constantly amazed by your encyclopedic knowledge of minutiae.  Seriously.

I have one question, though.  Why do you suggest that the cases should not have been heard?

Not the cases, but the distinction drawn in the decision.  There is no constitutional basis for holding that there are US possessions to which the full provisions of the constitution do not apply.  Incidentally, the provision at issue in the original Insular Cases was Article I Section 8 Clause 1.

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About the only Constitutional way to exclude the insular areas would be to treat the inhabitants thereof as if they were Indians not taxed, but that would have meant recognizing the inherent, albeit subordinate, sovereignty of the inhabitants of those territories instead of making said sovereignty be something granted only at the discretion of Congress.

[angus]

Ah, okay.  But the sensitivities have changed in the past century, haven't they?  I wonder if such distinctions would pass political muster nowadays if brought to trial.

[Vega]

Ah, okay.  But the sensitivities have changed in the past century, haven't they?  I wonder if such distinctions would pass political muster nowadays if brought to trial.

I doubt they would today.

[Vega]

Ernest, would it take an act of congress to abolish the "incorporation/unincorporation" thing? Will that ever happen? And, if so, would the constitution apply fully to the territories?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There's been a few cases that have chipped away at the Insular Cases as far as civil rights are concerned without being an outright overturning.  Even with an outright overturn, the incorporated/unincorporated idea is useful as far as a statement of intent concerning the territories.  Since the populated territories are all about as settled as it is possible for them to be, incorporation is only likely as a prelude to statehood.

For example, if and when Puerto Rico becomes a state, I imagine that Congress would pass an Act incorporating Puerto Rico and telling the territory to draft a State Constitution, and then when Congress approved that initial constitution, Puerto Rico would be admitted as our 51st (or maybe 52nd) State.  With the exception of DC none of the other territories has the population—nor do I think they ever will have the population—to be admitted as States so long as we have a meaningful Senate with equal representation.