Opinion of Abstraction

[Antonio the Sixth]

Related to a recent discussion on IRC. And yes, I realize this is a very abstract question.

Obviously freedom thought process. Probably one of the characteristics that defines humanity the most. Enemies of abstraction often are enemies of thought itself.

[Mopsus]

It's foolhardy to disapprove of abstraction per se, but the elevation of abstraction over its opposite is life-denying. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What, like Paul Klee and that?

[ingemann]

What the Hell?!?

[Antonio the Sixth]

What, like Paul Klee and that?

Abstraction in art is of course also relevant to the topic, though, as the poll options indicate, I was mostly referring to abstraction as a thought process.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In what sense exactly?

[RFayette]

Abstraction is great in science and philosophy, but I really, really dislike modern art.

[The Mikado]

I think Antonio is reacting to my preference of actual humans over "Humanity" and my lack of concern for "posterity," a group of non-persons that manifestly does not exist by definition.

[traininthedistance]

I think Antonio is reacting to my preference of actual humans over "Humanity" and my lack of concern for "posterity," a group of non-persons that manifestly does not exist by definition.

Correction: preference for some certain humans over other humans, with a side helping of epistemic nihilism.

BTW, the last person I saw on this forum with such a dismissive attitude towards the future repercussions of present actions was opebo.  How does that make you feel?

[The Mikado]

I think Antonio is reacting to my preference of actual humans over "Humanity" and my lack of concern for "posterity," a group of non-persons that manifestly does not exist by definition.

Correction: preference for some certain humans over other humans, with a side helping of epistemic nihilism.

I fail to see the problem here.

[traininthedistance]

I think Antonio is reacting to my preference of actual humans over "Humanity" and my lack of concern for "posterity," a group of non-persons that manifestly does not exist by definition.

Correction: preference for some certain humans over other humans, with a side helping of epistemic nihilism.

I fail to see the problem here.

Get thee behind me, opebo.

[anvi]

Well, without abstraction, human beings couldn't talk.  So, for better or worse, I guess I have to say I'm in favor of abstraction.  It can, of course, be taken to absurd degrees, like every other human behavior.

[traininthedistance]

I think Antonio is reacting to my preference of actual humans over "Humanity" and my lack of concern for "posterity," a group of non-persons that manifestly does not exist by definition.

Correction: preference for some certain humans over other humans, with a side helping of epistemic nihilism.

I fail to see the problem here.

Okay, let me rephrase it:

For the first part... if you're okay with taking the sort of stance you do in the full knowledge that it is privileging only a subset of people, and is denigrating/erasing others, then own that.  Be honest with yourself.  Say, "okay, I'm fine with throwing young people and immigrants and nonconformists and people who for various reasons are systematically denied visibility and voice in our society under the bus!  I'm a reactionary!  I stand up for the entrenched and the privileged."  But don't be a hypocrite.  Don't try and claim the high ground.

For the second part... you can say that you don't care about "posterity" or "future generations", but at some point (protip: we're already at that point) these repercussions are likely to happen within the lifetime of people who are already alive.  Some of them could very well happen while we are alive!  At that point, if you still say that you don't care, then you're not just pooh-poohing "nonpersons", you're pooh-poohing stuff like causality and evidence.  And, well, if you're doing that, then once again I have to ask how you're able to function in the real world.  

[Antonio the Sixth]

Mikado, tell me, if you somehow knew for sure that the plot of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream would become reality a couple centuries from now, would you be able to sleep just fine? I'm genuinely wondering.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I approve of Mathematics.

That is all.

[ingemann]

This is really really weird.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I am abstraction.  Because I don't want to talk about the mustard stain on your favorite Latin American leader's lapel.  Time for abstraction.  Let's talk about how Cincinattus is a spider instead!  At least that's interesting.

[The Mikado]

Mikado, tell me, if you somehow knew for sure that the plot of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream would become reality a couple centuries from now, would you be able to sleep just fine? I'm genuinely wondering.

I think I would. Why wouldn't I? I wouldn't be responsible for AM, I have no idea what sequence of events would bring AM to power, and I certainly would never see AM in power.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Mikado, tell me, if you somehow knew for sure that the plot of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream would become reality a couple centuries from now, would you be able to sleep just fine? I'm genuinely wondering.

I think I would. Why wouldn't I? I wouldn't be responsible for AM, I have no idea what sequence of events would bring AM to power, and I certainly would never see AM in power.

Fair enough, I just wanted to measure how chillingly alien your morality actually is. Most human beings feel a some kind of empathetic connection (even if very tenuous) with all fellow human beings - present, past and future alike.

[twistory123]

... I think that opinions such as a people must be free and should not reduce in any way, to live the freedom of opinion

[AutumnLeaf]

the freedom of opinion should be control for a quality entity, because the opportunism of some mass media take that law like a pass to publish trash-information in a free way.