Should Holocaust denial be a criminal offense?

[Horus]

I don't like these laws because it allows neo-Nazis to claim that the government is hiding the truth.  Truth doesn't need to hide behind laws and the holocaust is one of the most documented historical events.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This remains my position:

No, but Holocaust deniers should be publicly humiliated to a great extent.

They do that on their own.

That's why I don't believe punishing Holocaust deniers, as much as I abbhore those bastards, does any good. It only brings them more exposure.

Come on, would we be aware of Zundel's existence if not for his trail?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Ingemann gave the perfect answer here:

This is really one of those issue with a naive black-white dichotomy not only not make a lot of sense, but also show that the keeper of such opinions is a little simple.

Was it a good idea, that Germany, France and other countries made such a ban after WW2; yes. Would it make a lot of sense to make the same law in Denmark, Sweden or Finland after WW2; not really. Do Germany or France need to keep it today; not really. Do it harm anybody that they keep this law; yes some pretty horrible people. Do I care that these people are harmed by this law; not really. Is abolishing the law worth the whining and international condemnation from Jewish organisation and Israel; again not really.

Conclusion: Keep the law if it already exist, but don't create such a law if it doesn't exist.

This. I could see an argument for quietly ceasing to enforce these laws over time, but repealing them outright doesn't strike me as a good idea.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'm a free speech absolutist.*  No.

*barring things like doxxing, shouting "fire" in a movie theater, etc.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

No. People should stop pandering to Holocaust survivors as well. Let that dark period of World History just rest and move on.

And how does the world "pander" to Holocaust survivors?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, if only for the symbolic value. Don't throw anyone in jail over it, but a mild to significant (depending on context) fine is legitimate.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In the US? No.
In Germany today? Eh, probably not.
In Germany in the 40s and 50s? Absolutely.

[RFayette]

In the US? No.
In Germany today? Eh, probably not.
In Germany in the 40s and 50s? Absolutely.

[DavidB.]

Ingemann gave the perfect answer here:

This is really one of those issue with a naive black-white dichotomy not only not make a lot of sense, but also show that the keeper of such opinions is a little simple.

Was it a good idea, that Germany, France and other countries made such a ban after WW2; yes. Would it make a lot of sense to make the same law in Denmark, Sweden or Finland after WW2; not really. Do Germany or France need to keep it today; not really. Do it harm anybody that they keep this law; yes some pretty horrible people. Do I care that these people are harmed by this law; not really. Is abolishing the law worth the whining and international condemnation from Jewish organisation and Israel; again not really.

Conclusion: Keep the law if it already exist, but don't create such a law if it doesn't exist.

This. I could see an argument for quietly ceasing to enforce these laws over time, but repealing them outright doesn't strike me as a good idea.

Holocaust denial is not illegal here (though depending on the phrasing it may be considered "group insult"), but selling Mein Kampf used to be, and the court legalizing it caused so many terrible people to air atrocious views that I would much have preferred to keep it illegal (though the ban may be reinstated by a higher court). But muh freedumb of speech, and Jews should just get over it, something something.

[catographer]

No.

But it would become "fighting words" and illegal speech if they called for another holocaust?

[buritobr]

Just make a comparison

In Germany and in Austria, Holocaust denial is a criminal offense.
In the USA, the denial that the cause of the Civil War was slavery is not a criminal offense.

Which hate groups are stronger? Neonazis in Germany and Austria or Neoconfederates in the USA?

[Kingpoleon]

No.

But it would become "fighting words" and illegal speech if they called for another holocaust?

Many men are quick to talk but unlikely to act. Few men are quick to act but unlikely to talk. Of these two types, the latter is far more dangerous.

[CMB222]

No, that would be a bit ridiculous. . .  free speech. Although Holocaust deniers are pieces of human garbage they still have the right to speak their mind

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: free speech is vastly overrated.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Seeing as how Germany is full of groups and even actual parties (including the NPD which has made it into state legislatures before) that are Neo-Nazi in all but name and remain legal simply by not calling themselves Nazis, not using the swastika and not simply talking about the Holocaust at all instead of denying it I'm not sure said laws are all that effective. I mean it also has the AfD and even some of the most fringe politicians in the CDU/CSU pushing that whole "Germany was the real victim of WWII" stuff as well.

[Intell]

Yes.

[RI]

What are we defining as Holocaust denial? I believe most "deniers" I've seen are more of the "Holocaust didn't happen in the way the history books say" camp vs the "Holocaust didn't happen, period" camp.

[The Govanah Jake]

Hell no. Freedom of Speech.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Definitely.

[President Johnson]

No. As terrible and disgraceful as denial is, it should not be a crime. The freedom of speech should be valued higher than making stupid opinions a crime. It should not be crime to denie things that are proven, because what's next? Outlaw denial of climate change? Argue that Dubya was behind 9/11? Claiming that Stalin never killed his own people?

But I think it won't change in Germany, because every politican who would propose a repeal of the law would be politically dead.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Nah, but it should be a misdemeanor.

[Hammy]

There should be penalty (even if a simple fine) for spreading any misinformation, especially if we're talking in some sort of large scale public setting (speeches, social media, etc), Holocaust denial included--publicly denying something that is an established fact does not fall under freely expressing your opinion.

[Strudelcutie4427]

Yes. No time for neo-nazis denying it anymore. They honestly sicken me having been to auschwitz where you can still feel an evil aura surrounding the place. Same thing with holodomor denial.

[SingingAnalyst]

No.  You should be allowed to express any idea.  In a sense, it's good to have a debate where even the most ridiculous, stupid ideas can be expressed.  When someone outs themselves as a holocaust denier or a 9/11 conspiracy theorist or a bigfoot believer, you know they're a cuckoo brains.  That's important information to have. 

However, if you write that a holocaust survivor is lying that they were in a concentration camp, that could be libel. 

I think bedstuy makes a good point.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Just make a comparison

In Germany and in Austria, Holocaust denial is a criminal offense.
In the USA, the denial that the cause of the Civil War was slavery is not a criminal offense.

Which hate groups are stronger? Neonazis in Germany and Austria or Neoconfederates in the USA?

Except slavery wasn't the only cause of the Civil War.