Citizens have the right to be heard on the Senate floor (Sign the Pledge)!

[Adam Griffin]

I don't know about you, but for as long as I can remember, citizens have been welcome to speak in Senate threads on legislation that the body is considering.

Apparently now, however, some Senators and officeholders find that to be controversial, even in my own party.

Well, I will not stand for this. Every damn citizen in Atlasia has the fundamental right to pepper the Senate with questions, comments and criticisms on any and all forms of legislation directly where said debate is occurring. While there are "separate but equal" discussion threads,  we are under no obligation to use those exclusively to voice our concerns. I'm not confident that most Senators even would read comments there, anyway.

This type of attitude from elitist Senators - that citizens cannot post in Senate legislation threads - shall not be tolerated as long as I have something to say about it and I hope you'll join me. If we need to rotate out the entire goddamn Senate in order to guarantee our access to discussion, then so be it.

    Also not a Senator, but I would like to say that...

This is the people's Senate. Those bastards work for you, there is no need to apologize for speaking your piece on the Senate floor. Senators legislate by voting in accordance with the majority rules, but the people still possess free speech rights and this has always been an open forum, a precedent Windjammer continues to uphold.

There is a thread in the main page to present views and formal submissions

Main Page? The AFE board is not the main page. The AFE board is the board where the elections game aspect of Atlasia is conducted.

The purpose of said thread's creation was to provide a vehicle for greater interest in the Senate's discourse, not to compartmentalize and cast aside the opinions of private citizens to that they can be ignored by the Senate. This place has a long history of being out of touch on a variety of issues, the most recent example being the previous Amendment ratification. Suppressing public interest and input is not in the chamber's best interests.

     The issue is that while people take issue with the Senate for pushing some ridiculous ideas, there are never any consequences. The same folks keep winning easily. Something has to change with that.

Yankee - your stands are adorable but the purpose of the thread was not just to increase exposure, but a way to have the clearest avenue for input to Bills.

Sign the pledge: "I will not have my posting rights dictated to me like a child, telling me where and when I can voice concerns about critical legislation being debated in the Atlasian Senate"

x Adam

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You said it Senator Griff.

X C³rosby, S¹tills, N²ash and Y⁴oung

[Oakvale]

Speaking as someone who's regularly "contributed" to various Senate debates while not a member of that august body I'd actually think it's better that the Senate impose stricter rules on just that. Being a Senator should carry more privileges than simply being able to vote on legislation. Citizens can now, bizarrely, even introduce legislation.

[Dr. Cynic]

I honestly try not to post on the Senate floor when I'm not a Senator. If I was asked to testify on something or whatever, that's one thing, but I honestly feel as though the Senate floor should remain for Senators only and that there should be a public thread for everyone else to debate their feelings.

That said, I wouldn't try to stop anyone from posting there or say someone shouldn't. I just do my thing.

[Simfan34]

This campaign is the height of opportunistic hypocrisy.

[Adam Griffin]

Speaking as someone who's regularly "contributed" to various Senate debates while not a member of that august body I'd actually think it's better that the Senate impose stricter rules on just that. Being a Senator should carry more privileges than simply being able to vote on legislation. Citizens can now, bizarrely, even introduce legislation.

Elitist

This campaign is the height of opportunistic hypocrisy.

Corrupt

[Lief 🗽]

Under my chairmanship, the Labor Party will always stand for freedom of debate and access for the People to the Senate. Unfortunately, a lot of my colleagues seem to have forgotten that we work for the People, they are our bosses, and not the various special interests that have unfortunately taken control of some of the other parties. I commend Comrade Griffin for bringing this to national attention!

X Lief

[bore]

As I already said yesterday citizen input on bills when it is a new perspective or facts which have escaped the senate's notice or a well written amendment is a very good thing and is to be welcomed. I do think that a non senator just posting in every senate thread something like "I like this amendment" or "I don't like this amendment" disrupts the senate and the Speaker should try to stop those useless posts, but they are rare enough that it's not really a problem.

[Adam Griffin]

As I already said yesterday citizen input on bills when it is a new perspective or facts which have escaped the senate's notice or a well written amendment is a very good thing and is to be welcomed. I do think that a non senator just posting in every senate thread something like "I like this amendment" or "I don't like this amendment" disrupts the senate and the Speaker should try to stop those useless posts, but they are rare enough that it's not really a problem.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened to start this conversation, or else I wouldn't have made this post feeling it was necessary. As far as I'm concerned, Senators should have no ivory tower in which to retreat from the citizenry, and they certainly don't need additional powers and privileges.

I don't recall anyone ever criticizing a citizen for making germane contributions to Senate discussion threads. Often, these comments are extremely helpful. Have I missed something?

See OP and corresponding thread.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Interesting strategy, I grant you. Fan some flames.

But my comment was meant to notify that there is a thread dedicated to such submissions and input and I do read it when there's something there. Considering your great friend Senator TNF also suggested that comments should be directed elsewhere, in fact, with far more direct language. I also urge you to read the debate in relation to the establishment of this thread. It was to create a centrally located place for citizen input and submission to legislation and to suggest legislation.

I don't oppose input in Senate debate from outside sources, never have and as a non-elected citizen and as President, I did. But it can make the debate difficult to follow when there are two people having a parallel conversation in debate, this doesn't happen often as the President notes. So, please don't continue to deliberately confuse these process. There are multiple avenues for input, but for the ease of debate, I would prefer that parallel discussions not take place in the debate threads.

And Yankee knows that I'm teasing him and his new-found joie de vivre, and you know that. Again, cute manufactured outrage, but not exactly fact-based.

[Simfan34]

This attempted wedge strategy is extraordinarily transparent.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And Yankee knows that I'm teasing him and his new-found joie de vivre, and you know that.

How is anyone supposed to know what a crazy person knows, more or less a third party knowing that said person knowns anything?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

And Yankee knows that I'm teasing him and his new-found joie de vivre, and you know that.

How is anyone supposed to know what a crazy person knows, more or less a third party knowing that said person knowns anything?

You make a good point and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This attempted wedge strategy is extraordinarily transparent.

I don't see what is being split apart except maybe the angry masses and the officials in Nyman who face having their heads affixed to pikes. Of course you have always been a "friend" of the angry masses, so you have nothing to worry about.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And Yankee knows that I'm teasing him and his new-found joie de vivre, and you know that.

How is anyone supposed to know what a crazy person knows, more or less a third party knowing that said person knowns anything?

You make a good point and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

The writings of the mad often make for difficult reading.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

8/10 would read again

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

This attempted wedge strategy is extraordinarily transparent.

I don't see what is being split apart except maybe the angry masses and the officials in Nyman who face having their heads affixed to pikes. Of course you have always been a "friend" of the angry masses, so you have nothing to worry about.

Wait... the look isn't complete without...

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

No man, no no no no

Russian style 1670's. Throw them over the Kremlin walls and let the troops below do it by hand.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The Senate has proven over the years that it falls out of touch with the common Atlasian too easily. We need to be able to voice our complaints there, so that the Senate may better understand who it is making laws for.

     X PiT (The Physicist)

[Adam Griffin]

As I already said yesterday citizen input on bills when it is a new perspective or facts which have escaped the senate's notice or a well written amendment is a very good thing and is to be welcomed. I do think that a non senator just posting in every senate thread something like "I like this amendment" or "I don't like this amendment" disrupts the senate and the Speaker should try to stop those useless posts, but they are rare enough that it's not really a problem.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened to start this conversation, or else I wouldn't have made this post feeling it was necessary. As far as I'm concerned, Senators should have no ivory tower in which to retreat from the citizenry, and they certainly don't need additional powers and privileges.

I don't recall anyone ever criticizing a citizen for making germane contributions to Senate discussion threads. Often, these comments are extremely helpful. Have I missed something?

See OP and corresponding thread.

Are you referring to TNF's remarks?

Yankee pls go

He's the only Senator whom I see unequivocally criticizing a citizen for posting in a Senate discussion thread. But it would be extremely out-of-character for you to launch an attack on one of Labor's own Senators, so I have to confess that your claims continue to puzzle me.

Both. Just because some are more abrasive than others and some prefer more tact than others doesn't change the overall meaning of the message.

[Prince of Salem]

x Altsomn Stmarken

I've supported broad citizen participation since I first came here and will continue to do so. It only makes sense that more voices can be heard in order to make things work better.