Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Mr. Morden]

The whole B=NK theory makes no sense. Bran can't even time travel physically, so how could he be that first dude that got stabbed by the children and turned into a white walker?

He wouldn't be him physically, only mentally.  I guess the idea is that it would be sort of like when he mentally sent the "hold the door" message back in time to Hodor, except this time he'd be sending his entire consciousness.  It'd be a "Being John Malkovich" type scenario, where his mind ends up displacing the mind of the original guy.

Well if it's only mentally, then the similarity in appearance to Bran doesn't have any relation to the theory itself and is just a coincidence.

Whether it's the Night King or not, I can definitely imagine Bran's warging ability eventually leading to a scenario where he gets stuck in another body forever.  In fact, maybe if he's not the Night King in the past, he'll end up being the Night King in the future.  He could presumably win the war against the White Walkers right now if he was able to warg into the Night King and take over.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Just got finished watching the season finale. Nothing spectacular, tho they did manage to cover everything they needed to.  I realize they were trying to bring things to a close quickly this season, but they easily could have added at least one more episode, Episode 3.5, which could have been a mostly intrigue laden episode showing how Highgarden fell due to treachery from within.  They also might have been able to get a Gendry centered episode if they'd considered doing more than typing up a loose end by having Davos find him when he went to King's Landing.  Gendry didn't add anything to any of the storylines he was in, so he was a wasted opportunity.

[Tender Branson]

Lots of incest again, involving the Lannisters and Targaryens ...

Are we sure these 2 houses are not Austrian ?

[RINO Tom]

Loved the finale, great episode.  Will be a rough time waiting for that final season.  My plan is to rewatch everything this winter, as I barely remember the events of season one that aren't regularly referenced, LOL.

[Gustaf]

Where did people see these chains carried by the army of the dead before they got the dragon out?

[dead0man]

I'm on team Night King!

[ltomlinson31]

I enjoyed the finale a lot. Especially loved the scene with Tyrion and Cersei. Both Peter Dinklage and Lena Hedley were both great. Littlefinger on his knees and begging for himself was also very satisfying.

I'm also going to rewatch the series soon, as I love to read the wikia after episodes and there is a lot I don't remember from some seasons. Not like we're going to be watching any new episodes any time soon.

[RINO Tom]

The chains complaining was unbelievable, LOL.  They have literally ransacked every free folk town that was north of the Wall.  Every single one.  As this awesome Barstool Sports video pointed out, it's prefectly possible that the Night King was like, "Oh, sh**t; we might need those chains later.  Hey, dead zombie slaves, grab those."  We also haven't been shown "literal" timelines, and they could have walked back a few hours to get them, walked the few hours back to that lake and dragged the dragon out.  Stop complaining and enjoy the ride, people!

Of course, if my preferred "Bran is the Night King" theory holds up, the Night King planned that whole thing, and I think that's what happened anyway.

[dead0man]

link for chains talk

seems there was a dock with chains on it the background.....thus either:
1.the lake connects to the sea and the chains were just laying around the dock like chains do
2.Bran the Builder used large chains to drag ice blocks to the wall 1000 years ago and magic steel doesn't rust in the cold?  idk

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Other than the Theon stuff, I thought it was a pretty bad episode.  Even the Night's King riding Rodan made no sense (what was his plan before the dragon showed up?  Wait around and do nothing?).

[Enduro]

While the season did have some great scenes, I think the finale was the season 7 I wanted. Too bad it lasted one episode.

This episode was amazing. Having some great plotlines from Theon and the Lannisters. Plus, I was waiting for that scene to happen at the end for a long time.

[Blue3]

Other than the Theon stuff, I thought it was a pretty bad episode.  Even the Night's King riding Rodan made no sense (what was his plan before the dragon showed up?  Wait around and do nothing?).

The Night King had been waiting for the Dragons this entire time. He knew they were coming. He kept Jon&co on that island as bait for Daenerys. It was a trap. The Night King has the same abilities as Bran, he knows all of the characters.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Other than the Theon stuff, I thought it was a pretty bad episode.  Even the Night's King riding Rodan made no sense (what was his plan before the dragon showed up?  Wait around and do nothing?).

The Night King had been waiting for the Dragons this entire time. He knew they were coming. He kept Jon&co on that island as bait for Daenerys. It was a trap. The Night King has the same abilities as Bran, he knows all of the characters.

[Blue3]

Um, 100% serious.

And as I already posted, we already saw them preparing the chains in Episode 1.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Um, 100% serious.

And as I already posted, we already saw them preparing the chains in Episode 1.

Translation: It makes no sense, but D&D wanted the Night's King to ride Rodan even though it's not gonna happen in the books, so that's what happened.

[Blue3]

Um, 100% serious.

And as I already posted, we already saw them preparing the chains in Episode 1.

Translation: It makes no sense, but D&D wanted the Night's King to ride Rodan even though it's not gonna happen in the books, so that's what happened.

Why do you keep saying "Rodan"?

The names of the dragons are Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. The NK has Viserion.


It makes perfect sense. We've seen more than once how the NK has Bran's powers, notices Bran's powers... even reanimating wights is similar to how Bran can possess the living.

[Lumine]

We can say "it's not going to happen on the books" all we want, but the problem is that we don't actually have the books.

I can and do blame D&D for inexcusable disasters like Show Dorne, but when all you have is a vague outline of the endgame for such a complex plotline one can hardly blame them for some of the story decisions they had to make, particularly when we have nothing to compare them to.

So since the Show and the Books have diverged a long time ago I think it's best if you judge them separatedly, and in doing that I didn't found this season to be bad at all, indeed I found it better than Season 5 and Season 6.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Um, 100% serious.

And as I already posted, we already saw them preparing the chains in Episode 1.

Translation: It makes no sense, but D&D wanted the Night's King to ride Rodan even though it's not gonna happen in the books, so that's what happened.

Why do you keep saying "Rodan"?

The names of the dragons are Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal. The NK has Viserion.


It makes perfect sense. We've seen more than once how the NK has Bran's powers, notices Bran's powers... even reanimating wights is similar to how Bran can possess the living.

So we're throwing "three heads has the dragon" completely out the window? 

Btw, I keep saying Rodan b/c it kinda looked like the NK was riding Rodan in one of the shots. 

We can say "it's not going to happen on the books" all we want, but the problem is that we don't actually have the books.

I can and do blame D&D for inexcusable disasters like Show Dorne, but when all you have is a vague outline of the endgame for such a complex plotline one can hardly blame them for some of the story decisions they had to make, particularly when we have nothing to compare them to.

So since the Show and the Books have diverged a long time ago I think it's best if you judge them separatedly, and in doing that I didn't found this season to be bad at all, indeed I found it better than Season 5 and Season 6.

D&D have said this is not how the wall comes down in the books.  Also season five was waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than season seven.  Season six was when things really went off the rails, but I'd say even that season was better than this one.

[Blue3]

Why does "the dragon has 3 heads" have to be about dragon-riders?

[Mr. Morden]

Narratively, it seems rather unsatisfying if the only way for the White Walkers to pass through the wall was to rely on Team Humanity to go on this dumb mission whose only purpose was to prove that the White Walkers were a threat.  And I'd have the same objections if the "Bran inadvertently de-powers the Wall" theories were correct.  The White Walkers being a threat only because the humans make dumb mistakes doesn't work for me.

Of course, this gets at a problem with Jon's entire goal of uniting the human race against the WWs.  How does he even know that the WWs have a way to get past the Wall?  They haven't managed it for the past few years, so for all he knows, they don't have any way to do so.

So then, let's suppose that they didn't get through the Wall.  What is the plan of Team Humanity then?  Launch a massive pre-emptive strike against them (even though that could backfire, since that could lead to many more deaths, plus the possible loss of the remaining two dragons)?  Or just man the Wall in case of invasion, but otherwise wait and see (for years?  decades?) if the WWs manage to do anything?  How long do they put the war for the Iron Throne on hold while they wait around to see if the WWs do anything?  It's a moot point now that the Wall has come down, but they didn't know that it would come down when they were talking about this.

It just seems like Jon and co. have been taking it as a given that the WWs are very likely to take over the whole continent soon-ish, despite not really having any reason to believe that the Wall wouldn't stop them from doing so.

[Mr. Morden]

It looks increasingly likely that the final season won't air until early 2019:

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-season-8-filming-schedule-air-date-clues-revealed/

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Narratively, it seems rather unsatisfying if the only way for the White Walkers to pass through the wall was to rely on Team Humanity to go on this dumb mission whose only purpose was to prove that the White Walkers were a threat.  And I'd have the same objections if the "Bran inadvertently de-powers the Wall" theories were correct.  The White Walkers being a threat only because the humans make dumb mistakes doesn't work for me.

Of course, this gets at a problem with Jon's entire goal of uniting the human race against the WWs.  How does he even know that the WWs have a way to get past the Wall?  They haven't managed it for the past few years, so for all he knows, they don't have any way to do so.

So then, let's suppose that they didn't get through the Wall.  What is the plan of Team Humanity then?  Launch a massive pre-emptive strike against them (even though that could backfire, since that could lead to many more deaths, plus the possible loss of the remaining two dragons)?  Or just man the Wall in case of invasion, but otherwise wait and see (for years?  decades?) if the WWs manage to do anything?  How long do they put the war for the Iron Throne on hold while they wait around to see if the WWs do anything?  It's a moot point now that the Wall has come down, but they didn't know that it would come down when they were talking about this.

It just seems like Jon and co. have been taking it as a given that the WWs are very likely to take over the whole continent soon-ish, despite not really having any reason to believe that the Wall wouldn't stop them from doing so.

This. 

Why does "the dragon has 3 heads" have to be about dragon-riders?

I'm pretty sure Martin has explicitly said that's what it is referring to, so...

[RINO Tom]

Narratively, it seems rather unsatisfying if the only way for the White Walkers to pass through the wall was to rely on Team Humanity to go on this dumb mission whose only purpose was to prove that the White Walkers were a threat.  And I'd have the same objections if the "Bran inadvertently de-powers the Wall" theories were correct.  The White Walkers being a threat only because the humans make dumb mistakes doesn't work for me.

Of course, this gets at a problem with Jon's entire goal of uniting the human race against the WWs.  How does he even know that the WWs have a way to get past the Wall?  They haven't managed it for the past few years, so for all he knows, they don't have any way to do so.

So then, let's suppose that they didn't get through the Wall.  What is the plan of Team Humanity then?  Launch a massive pre-emptive strike against them (even though that could backfire, since that could lead to many more deaths, plus the possible loss of the remaining two dragons)?  Or just man the Wall in case of invasion, but otherwise wait and see (for years?  decades?) if the WWs manage to do anything?  How long do they put the war for the Iron Throne on hold while they wait around to see if the WWs do anything?  It's a moot point now that the Wall has come down, but they didn't know that it would come down when they were talking about this.

It just seems like Jon and co. have been taking it as a given that the WWs are very likely to take over the whole continent soon-ish, despite not really having any reason to believe that the Wall wouldn't stop them from doing so.

I appreciate the well-thought analysis, but I'm not sure this is fair.  The Night King is 10,000 years old and has clearly demonstrated a crazy amount of power.  I'd be scared shltless that, SOMEHOW, he was going to find a way through.  Maybe he has the army of the dead build a boat or two and they sail in from the side?  Maybe a World War Z situation arises and the army of the dead make a massive human pyramid to just get one of them inside one of the balcony things?  Also keep in mind that Jon witnessed a fairly dangerous assault on the wall by the Wildlings, so I imagine he just thinks that the Night King could provide it a lot more of a test.  LOL, I don't know, but I'd feel far from safe and content in Westeros knowing an ever-growing army of the dead was just north of a wall, no matter how good of a fortress it was.  I will agree that unless the Night King set a trap for Dany's dragons (I'm on board with this right now), then it is kind of suspect.

[Mr. Morden]

Narratively, it seems rather unsatisfying if the only way for the White Walkers to pass through the wall was to rely on Team Humanity to go on this dumb mission whose only purpose was to prove that the White Walkers were a threat.  And I'd have the same objections if the "Bran inadvertently de-powers the Wall" theories were correct.  The White Walkers being a threat only because the humans make dumb mistakes doesn't work for me.

Of course, this gets at a problem with Jon's entire goal of uniting the human race against the WWs.  How does he even know that the WWs have a way to get past the Wall?  They haven't managed it for the past few years, so for all he knows, they don't have any way to do so.

So then, let's suppose that they didn't get through the Wall.  What is the plan of Team Humanity then?  Launch a massive pre-emptive strike against them (even though that could backfire, since that could lead to many more deaths, plus the possible loss of the remaining two dragons)?  Or just man the Wall in case of invasion, but otherwise wait and see (for years?  decades?) if the WWs manage to do anything?  How long do they put the war for the Iron Throne on hold while they wait around to see if the WWs do anything?  It's a moot point now that the Wall has come down, but they didn't know that it would come down when they were talking about this.

It just seems like Jon and co. have been taking it as a given that the WWs are very likely to take over the whole continent soon-ish, despite not really having any reason to believe that the Wall wouldn't stop them from doing so.

I appreciate the well-thought analysis, but I'm not sure this is fair.  The Night King is 10,000 years old and has clearly demonstrated a crazy amount of power.  I'd be scared shltless that, SOMEHOW, he was going to find a way through.  Maybe he has the army of the dead build a boat or two and they sail in from the side?  Maybe a World War Z situation arises and the army of the dead make a massive human pyramid to just get one of them inside one of the balcony things?  Also keep in mind that Jon witnessed a fairly dangerous assault on the wall by the Wildlings, so I imagine he just thinks that the Night King could provide it a lot more of a test.  LOL, I don't know, but I'd feel far from safe and content in Westeros knowing an ever-growing army of the dead was just north of a wall, no matter how good of a fortress it was.  I will agree that unless the Night King set a trap for Dany's dragons (I'm on board with this right now), then it is kind of suspect.

A White Walker invasion is definitely something to be worried about.  But what I'm saying is that Jon's whole pitch is rather confusing, because I'm not sure what he's proposing.  Does he actually want to launch a (potentially very bloody or even counterproductive) preemptive strike: Send the dragons plus an army of humans armed with Dragonglass north of the Wall to attack the WWs?  Or is he proposing that they just man the Wall in large numbers, and build up their defenses, in the event that a WW invasion might happen some day?  Because if it's the latter, then might they not be waiting for years or decades or centuries?  How do they know how imminent such an invasion is?  Did they read the script for the finale, and that's how they know that the attack is imminent?  If the attack isn't imminent, then I'm not sure how a Dany-Cersei truce would ever be workable.  Is Dany going to sit on the Wall for the rest of her life?

Of course, it's a moot point now, since the WWs did breach the Wall at the end of this past episode, but the characters had no way of knowing that in advance....unless they read the script leaks themselves.

[Helsinkian]

Here is my prediction of the likelyhood of characters dying in the final season:

The Mountain 99%
Cersei 95%
Euron 95%
Melisandre 95%
Varys 95%
Qyburn 90%
Beric 80%
Theon 75%
Bran 65%
Jorah 65%
Jon 60%
Jaime 50%
Yara 50%
Grey Worm 50%
The Hound 40%
Tormund 40%
Gendry 30%
Bronn 25%
Davos 25%
Daenerys 25%
Podrick 25%
Tyrion 20%
Brienne 20%
Samwell 15%
Arya 10%
Gilly 5%
Missandei 5%
Sansa 5%
Hot Pie 1%

Thinking Jon and Bran sacrifice themselves in a battle against the White Walkers. Also think Dany becomes pregnant by Jon before that. Melisandre's and Varys's death likelihood based on Mel's prophecy.

Edit. added Hot Pie, though I'm not sure he'll have scenes.