Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A friend pretty much spoiled the entire ninth episode for me  So sadly, no predictions this week.

Huh? Do you know a screenwriter or something?

No, but apparently it got leaked online by some guy who was an extra on the Winterfell set for the filming of the battle and my friend read it and told me who dies before I could explain that while I love speculation and pre-season spoilers, I don't like hearing the super-detailed spoilers that tend to come out while the show is on the air.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

A friend pretty much spoiled the entire ninth episode for me  So sadly, no predictions this week.

Huh? Do you know a screenwriter or something?

No, but apparently it got leaked online by some guy who was an extra on the Winterfell set for the filming of the battle and my friend read it and told me who dies before I could explain that while I love speculation and pre-season spoilers, I don't like hearing the super-detailed spoilers that tend to come out while the show is on the air.

It's gonna be Davos isn't it?

[RaphaelDLG]

A friend pretty much spoiled the entire ninth episode for me  So sadly, no predictions this week.

Huh? Do you know a screenwriter or something?

No, but apparently it got leaked online by some guy who was an extra on the Winterfell set for the filming of the battle and my friend read it and told me who dies before I could explain that while I love speculation and pre-season spoilers, I don't like hearing the super-detailed spoilers that tend to come out while the show is on the air.

It's gonna be Davos isn't it?

No way.  Davos' arc isn't remotely close to being finished, and I think Davos is one of the characters who isn't so emotionally damaged that I could easily see him surviving the series.

My bets for episode 9 deaths are that two or more of Tormund, Wun Wun, Rickon, Ramsey dies.

[Blue3]

New epic trailer for Episode 9

https://youtu.be/rHlN3ur8ilg

[Mr. Morden]

My bets for episode 9 deaths are that two or more of Tormund, Wun Wun, Rickon, Ramsey dies.

I think Tormund is safe because he's the only Wildling we know.  They need a "face" for the Wildlings going forward, and if Tormund was going to die, they probably would have already introduced a backup option for leader.

I am wondering about Davos and Mel though.  Since the trailer makes it look like Davos finds out about Shireen, how does he react?  Do either Davos or Mel die, or will they actually learn to coexist, even with Davos finding out about Shireen?

[Joe Republic]

New epic trailer for Episode 9

https://youtu.be/rHlN3ur8ilg

No, that's a fan-made collection of scenes from previous episodes, with some clips from the official trailer mixed in.

[RaphaelDLG]

My bets for episode 9 deaths are that two or more of Tormund, Wun Wun, Rickon, Ramsey dies.

I think Tormund is safe because he's the only Wildling we know.  They need a "face" for the Wildlings going forward, and if Tormund was going to die, they probably would have already introduced a backup option for leader.

I am wondering about Davos and Mel though.  Since the trailer makes it look like Davos finds out about Shireen, how does he react?  Do either Davos or Mel die, or will they actually learn to coexist, even with Davos finding out about Shireen?

I dunno, I think those are great points and questions.  I'm 1,000,000% sure that Melisandre will die before the end of the series.  It's possible Davos could go with her.  Davos will find out this episode, and he will be PISSED.  It's probably too early in the series for her to go, though - it's possible her death/a confrontation will be set up that will play out in season 7.1.

[Mr. Morden]

My bets for episode 9 deaths are that two or more of Tormund, Wun Wun, Rickon, Ramsey dies.

I think Tormund is safe because he's the only Wildling we know.  They need a "face" for the Wildlings going forward, and if Tormund was going to die, they probably would have already introduced a backup option for leader.

I am wondering about Davos and Mel though.  Since the trailer makes it look like Davos finds out about Shireen, how does he react?  Do either Davos or Mel die, or will they actually learn to coexist, even with Davos finding out about Shireen?

I dunno, I think those are great points and questions.  I'm 1,000,000% sure that Melisandre will die before the end of the series.  It's possible Davos could go with her.  Davos will find out this episode, and he will be PISSED.  It's probably too early in the series for her to go, though - it's possible her death/a confrontation will be set up that will play out in season 7.1.

Melisandre did say that she saw visions of herself walking through Winterfell, with the Bolton banners having fallen to the ground, or something like that.  Also, back in Season 3, she told Arya that they'd meet again.  So I assume she survives this season.  Davos, I don't know.

Maybe Mel does die in Season 7 though, and her role gets taken over by Thoros.

Incidentally, speaking of the BwB, now that the Hound appears to be marching north with the BwB, does this spell trouble for Littlefinger?

By which I mean....let's say Littlefinger helps the Starks take Winterfell, and keeps working with them into next season, while scheming behind their backs.  The one thing that could screw up his plans would be if Sansa and Jon found out about the fact that he betrayed their father to Joffrey back in Season 1.  Luckily for him, most of the people who would know about that are dead, or (like Cersei) busy with other things and/or not seen as trustworthy by the Starks.  But there is one person who was in the throne room when the City Watch turned on Ned, and thus might have some understanding of Littlefinger's treachery, who *maybe* Sansa would listen to: The Hound.  And it looks like he might be in a position to reunite with her next season.

[RaphaelDLG]

My bets for episode 9 deaths are that two or more of Tormund, Wun Wun, Rickon, Ramsey dies.

I think Tormund is safe because he's the only Wildling we know.  They need a "face" for the Wildlings going forward, and if Tormund was going to die, they probably would have already introduced a backup option for leader.

I am wondering about Davos and Mel though.  Since the trailer makes it look like Davos finds out about Shireen, how does he react?  Do either Davos or Mel die, or will they actually learn to coexist, even with Davos finding out about Shireen?

I dunno, I think those are great points and questions.  I'm 1,000,000% sure that Melisandre will die before the end of the series.  It's possible Davos could go with her.  Davos will find out this episode, and he will be PISSED.  It's probably too early in the series for her to go, though - it's possible her death/a confrontation will be set up that will play out in season 7.1.

Melisandre did say that she saw visions of herself walking through Winterfell, with the Bolton banners having fallen to the ground, or something like that.  Also, back in Season 3, she told Arya that they'd meet again.  So I assume she survives this season.  Davos, I don't know.

Maybe Mel does die in Season 7 though, and her role gets taken over by Thoros.

Incidentally, speaking of the BwB, now that the Hound appears to be marching north with the BwB, does this spell trouble for Littlefinger?

By which I mean....let's say Littlefinger helps the Starks take Winterfell, and keeps working with them into next season, while scheming behind their backs.  The one thing that could screw up his plans would be if Sansa and Jon found out about the fact that he betrayed their father to Joffrey back in Season 1.  Luckily for him, most of the people who would know about that are dead, or (like Cersei) busy with other things and/or not seen as trustworthy by the Starks.  But there is one person who was in the throne room when the City Watch turned on Ned, and thus might have some understanding of Littlefinger's treachery, who *maybe* Sansa would listen to: The Hound.  And it looks like he might be in a position to reunite with her next season.

Re: Melisandre, I just don't know what role she has to play anymore, other than more exposition about a prophecy that Jon, Bran, Dany, Tyrion, etc will fulfill.  Your memory of her words is good, I imagine she will stick around for a little while then.

Your point about the hound is great as well.  I think, thematically, Littlefinger's arc is to get dangerously close to "winning" the game only to be screwed either 1) by Sansa, the person he trained and took advantage of/manipulated or 2) by someone incidental, like Sweetrobin, and end up dying at the end/towards the end of the series.  I think you might be right about the Hound revealing Littlefinger's betrayal - if the Hound kills LF, though, it'll be in a way where Sansa very much has agency over his death and goes from a little bird to a powerful queen.

[Blue3]

New epic trailer for Episode 9

https://youtu.be/rHlN3ur8ilg

No, that's a fan-made collection of scenes from previous episodes, with some clips from the official trailer mixed in.

I know... it's still a new epic trailer for Episode 9.
(and it's not like it has fake footage or anything)

[Blue3]

If Rickon dies, or anyone on Jon and Sansa's team dies... what's to stop Melisandre from bringing them back to life?

Unless Davos kills her...

[/]

Any way to livestream tonight's episode for free?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If Rickon dies, or anyone on Jon and Sansa's team dies... what's to stop Melisandre from bringing them back to life?

Unless Davos kills her...

What would be the point, narratively speaking.  In other words, why would George R. R. Martin, D&D, Bryan Cogman, etc have her do that?  What narrative purpose would it serve?

[Blue3]

What's the in-universe reason for her not to?

[Xing]

OMFG!!! YES!!! THANK GOD HE'S GONE!!!

Oh, good evening, everyone. How are all of you doing?

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

They emphasized this episode that Mel believes she brings people back if its R'hillor's will they live. It's entirely likely that that only falls to a few characters.

[Xing]

They emphasized this episode that Mel believes she brings people back if its R'hillor's will they live. It's entirely likely that that only falls to a few characters.

Yes, this. She claimed to see Jon Snow's victory in the flames, thus she obviously saw enough importance in him to bring him back.

[RaphaelDLG]

Predictions for next week:

- Cersei's trial goes badly, tommen probably doesn't yet die, I think Cersei lives until next season where she tries to use wildfire after tommen dies and gets killed by jamie
- Littlefinger tries to manipulate Sansa into marrying him
- Bran finds out about Jon's parentage.  Jon finds out from Bran when he goes into the crypts, or at least recieves a clue
- Obviously Davos tries to turn Jon against Melisandre after finding out about Shireen, idk what will happen next
- POSSIBLY Arya shows up at the twins and kills walder frey.  Idk why jamie is there, but he will survive

[Mr. Morden]

- Cersei's trial goes badly, tommen probably doesn't yet die, I think Cersei lives until next season where she tries to use wildfire after tommen dies and gets killed by jamie

My guess is that there won't be a trial.  From the preview, it looks like maybe a trial at least starts for Loras, but I doubt Cersei would even show up for her trial.  If she's going to use wildfire, she just uses it, before a trial even starts.  And I expect she'd do it next episode, rather than have that storyline drag out until next season.  I think it's important that, if she goes all Mad Queen, it happens when Jaime isn't around.

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You mean that Bran sends him some kind of telepathic message when he's in the crypts?  Maybe.  I do think there's a chance that he encounters something interesting in the crypts when he goes to bury Rickon, but I'm not sure it'll be a message from Bran.

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Yeah, from the preview, it looks like Jaime takes the Lannister troops to a celebration with the Freys.  If the spec about Arya knocking off the people on her kill list (starting with Walder Frey) is accurate, I wonder how that'll play out, and what role Jaime would play.  Plus we have other characters wandering around the Riverlands.  The BwB and the Hound are supposed to head north, which means that they'd pass through the Twins.  Do they somehow get involved in Reverse Red Wedding Justice?  Do they run into Brienne too?

[Enduro]

I just want to say, aside from Ramsey's death, the best part of this episode is the tracking shot of Jon Snow fighting during the battle.

[Gustaf]

I'm a bit disappointed. Why are all characters so sh*t at what they do all of a sudden?

Jon's fcking charge against the Bolton army is unbelievably dumb and actually immoral. He was taking an action that would kill his men just because he let his emotions control him. Pathetic.

And we're supposed to believe that Littlefinger snuck an entire army of the Vale right up to the gates of Winterfell without anyone in the North noticing? How the hell does that even happen??

And why didn't Sansa tell this to Jon? They could have won the whole battle so much easier with much less loss of life if they had done that. Sigh.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm a bit disappointed. Why are all characters so sh*t at what they do all of a sudden?

Jon's fcking charge against the Bolton army is unbelievably dumb and actually immoral. He was taking an action that would kill his men just because he let his emotions control him. Pathetic.

And we're supposed to believe that Littlefinger snuck an entire army of the Vale right up to the gates of Winterfell without anyone in the North noticing? How the hell does that even happen??

And why didn't Sansa tell this to Jon? They could have won the whole battle so much easier with much less loss of life if they had done that. Sigh.

I'm basically in agreement.  The episode looked cool, but the characters acted dumb.  Would have been great if Jon had been able to come up with some creative tactics or something, or if the Wildlings had used some sort of guerilla tactics, rather than just charging straight at the enemy.  But alas, it was not to be.

The real reason Sansa didn't tell Jon was because the writers made it that way so that it made the battle more suspenseful.  In universe, it made no sense.  If she'd told him, then Jon could have just maneuvered his army to some kind of rendezvous with the Vale army, and they could have swooped in and crushed Ramsay.  But the writers had to make it this way so that the battle would start before the Vale forces arrived.

And I'm also disappointed that Roose (earlier in the season) warning Ramsay against earning a reputation as a "mad dog" had no pay off.  No one defected from Ramsay's side.  He only lost because the Vale showed up.

[Gustaf]

I'm a bit disappointed. Why are all characters so sh*t at what they do all of a sudden?

Jon's fcking charge against the Bolton army is unbelievably dumb and actually immoral. He was taking an action that would kill his men just because he let his emotions control him. Pathetic.

And we're supposed to believe that Littlefinger snuck an entire army of the Vale right up to the gates of Winterfell without anyone in the North noticing? How the hell does that even happen??

And why didn't Sansa tell this to Jon? They could have won the whole battle so much easier with much less loss of life if they had done that. Sigh.

I'm basically in agreement.  The episode looked cool, but the characters acted dumb.  Would have been great if Jon had been able to come up with some creative tactics or something, or if the Wildlings had used some sort of guerilla tactics, rather than just charging straight at the enemy.  But alas, it was not to be.

The real reason Sansa didn't tell Jon was because the writers made it that way so that it made the battle more suspenseful.  In universe, it made no sense.  If she'd told him, then Jon could have just maneuvered his army to some kind of rendezvous with the Vale army, and they could have swooped in and crushed Ramsay.  But the writers had to make it this way so that the battle would start before the Vale forces arrived.

And I'm also disappointed that Roose (earlier in the season) warning Ramsay against earning a reputation as a "mad dog" had no pay off.  No one defected from Ramsay's side.  He only lost because the Vale showed up.

Yeah, exactly. Strong deviation from the book plot and for no discernible reason either. Ugh.

Also, can people please stop walking right up to enemies/strangers as if assassinations never happen? I'm thinking about Greyworm, Tyrion and Daenerys as examples from this episode. Also, is Dany gonna make it a thing to ride a dragon into battle without armour? Ugh.

[RINO Tom]

That was the best episode of the series so far.

[Xing]

And I'm also disappointed that Roose (earlier in the season) warning Ramsay against earning a reputation as a "mad dog" had no pay off.  No one defected from Ramsay's side.  He only lost because the Vale showed up.

Overall, I agree, though you could argue that his decision to challenge the Night's Watch was reckless, and he was overconfident. Not exactly the same as being a "mad dog", but Ramsay was clearly not as careful in this season.