Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Mr. Morden]

Who else is hoping that in Season 7, Sam will find a book in the library called "A Dream of Spring" by George R.R. Martin, which will show him how the story ends, and thus, how they can beat the White Walkers?  It'll be like a combination of The Neverending Story and this scene from Spaceballs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drjr9PmTMA

[Gustaf]

Biggest unanswered question: Does Meera have the upper body strength to carry Bran over the Wall?

Was thinking the same - bit of a dck move by Benjen to leave them without a horse or sleigh or anything

[Cory]

Cersei is officially bae.

Her getting total vengeance was on of the most satisfying things I've seen from a TV show in a long, long time.

But I do wonder how Littlefinger will react to the new situation. Jon Snow is King in the North and Sansa won't marry him. His plan is unraveling and he has to do something. Maybe allying with Cersei and crushing Jon Snow/Sansa is on the table? Robin doesn't get along with Sansa in the show so that could be a factor.

[Gustaf]

I wonder if the books will also feature the Tyrells getting wiped out like that. I guess some of the characters murdered by Cersei (eg Kevan and Pycelle) also die in the books but at the hands of others. Really disappointed in the use of Kevan though tbh. Seems like he literally had no point whatsoever in the show.

Cersei seems utterly and royally fcked now though. Like what's even her end game here? It looks like she is facing a Dorne-Tyrell-dragons-Unsullied-Dothraki-Greyjoy alliance which as far as I can tell would be a match for the rest of Westeros combined. She won't get help from the Starks (obviously, duh). She must be controversial as hell even in the Westerlands having murdered her uncle and cousin and forced her son to suicide. She must be wildly unpopular with the common folk and the Faith having murdered the High Sparrow in the fricking Sept. The Stormlords and Riverlords can't like her much given her wars with their rulers and Walder Frey, one of her few allies, is dead. What's left? I guess maybe she could make an alliance with Euron but with the Greyjoy split I doubt he has much of a force to bring. And she could attempt to ally with Littlefinger. However, it seems like a) he'd run into trouble in the North if he tried that and wouldn't be much use and b) he doesn't have that much authority - it's difficult to imagine the Knights of the Vale being gung-ho about joining the Lannisters given the history. They certainly expressed strong animosity towards the Lannisters in the past.

[Mr. Morden]

Biggest unanswered question: Does Meera have the upper body strength to carry Bran over the Wall?

Was thinking the same - bit of a dck move by Benjen to leave them without a horse or sleigh or anything

He could have at least dropped them off right in front of the gate at Castle Black or something.  But no, from the establishing shot, it looked like the Wall was still quite a ways off in the distance.  That's a loooong way for Meera to carry Bran, even if she's in good shape (despite having eaten nothing more than rabbits and moss any time recently).

Cersei is officially bae.

Her getting total vengeance was on of the most satisfying things I've seen from a TV show in a long, long time.

But I do wonder how Littlefinger will react to the new situation. Jon Snow is King in the North and Sansa won't marry him. His plan is unraveling and he has to do something. Maybe allying with Cersei and crushing Jon Snow/Sansa is on the table?

I don't think so on allying with Cersei.  She's about to get wiped out anyway.  My guess is that LF is going to try to use some kind of deception to drive a wedge between Jon and Sansa, but it's unclear how he'll manage to do that.  I'm also wondering if LF somehow knows or suspects Jon's parentage, and will try to play that card somehow.  When he talked to Sansa about Rhaegar and Lyanna in Season 5, it sounded like he knew more than he was letting on.

There's also the question of whether Bran returning to Winterfell will complicate Littlefinger's plan.  Under normal circumstances, he'd be ahead of Sansa in line of succession by virtue of being male.

And I still wonder if the Hound arriving in Winterfell is going to be what does LF in, given that he was in the throne room when LF betrayed Ned in Season 1, and thus may be in a position to tell the Starks about the extent of LF's past treachery.

Cersei seems utterly and royally fcked now though. Like what's even her end game here? It looks like she is facing a Dorne-Tyrell-dragons-Unsullied-Dothraki-Greyjoy alliance which as far as I can tell would be a match for the rest of Westeros combined. She won't get help from the Starks (obviously, duh). She must be controversial as hell even in the Westerlands having murdered her uncle and cousin and forced her son to suicide.

It's not totally clear to me whether it's public knowledge that it was Cersei who's responsible for the Sept burning.  I suppose she could blame it on a gas leak. 

But regardless, the deck seems to be stacked in Dany's favor to a ridiculous extent.  Even if Dany's armada is stopping off in Dorne first to pick up some Martell and Tyrell troops, how long can they possibly stretch out her march to King's Landing?  Especially given that almost every other character in the show not already with her is in either King's Landing or Winterfell, or will be within another episode or two (meaning that the show's focus won't be splintered among 8 different settings each episode next season, so each storyline should be able to progress faster)?

So yeah, how long can they stretch out Cersei's downfall?  Will she make it past episode 4 of next year?

[Mr. Morden]

But regardless, the deck seems to be stacked in Dany's favor to a ridiculous extent.  Even if Dany's armada is stopping off in Dorne first to pick up some Martell and Tyrell troops, how long can they possibly stretch out her march to King's Landing?  Especially given that almost every other character in the show not already with her is in either King's Landing or Winterfell, or will be within another episode or two (meaning that the show's focus won't be splintered among 8 different settings each episode next season, so each storyline should be able to progress faster)?

So yeah, how long can they stretch out Cersei's downfall?  Will she make it past episode 4 of next year?

And to add to the above: This is why the finale actually felt kind of weird.  I liked the execution of it quite a bit of it, sure.  But if the series as a whole just finished Act 2 in a 3 act play, then it's a strange way to end Act 2, because things seem to be going *really* well for the "good guys".

First, even while Dany can get carried away sometimes, the show has reinforced the idea that Tyrion at least will temper her worst instincts.  So the show definitely wants the audience to root for her.  And her path ahead seems to be pretty easy.  Even against the White Walkers, the side of humanity will now be able to use dragons to burn the zombies from the air (and can use dragon glass and Valerian steel for the WWs).  The WWs now seem *less* threatening than they did a few seasons ago, which is a weird place for the story to be at the end of Act 2.  That's why I was hoping that we'd get some important info about them this season which would ramp up the threat level, but it didn't happen.

The other thing that would have been an interesting complication for Team Dany would have been if the show led us to believe that Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, which would theoretically make Jon the Targaryen heir over Dany, if that news ever got out.  They might still do that, but it remains hypothetical, so the R+L=J as given wasn't enough create any dissonance for me on the final shot of Dany's fleet, which I might have gotten if they straight up told us that Jon was the legitimate heir.

[Gustaf]

For one thing Euron will probably steal the dragons with his magic horn.

And I guess with the way things have been going awful for the good guys so many times something like this sort of had to happen at this stage.

[Mr. Morden]

I don't know if the Wall will even still exist when the series is over, but here's a crazy idea for the eventual ending of Jon Snow's character arc: Jon has to go beyond the Wall for some reason, but then once he's there, he can't go back anymore, because the same magic that stopped Benjen will stop Jon (since he's also "dead").  So he's (sort of) alive, but forever trapped beyond the Wall (though maybe the weather will have improved once the White Walkers are defeated).

For one thing Euron will probably steal the dragons with his magic horn.

I don't think any magic horn has been referenced on the TV show.

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It just seems like an odd place in the narrative for everything to be going quite *this* well.  Again, if they were doing more to make the White Walker threat more menacing, I'd probably feel differently, but it doesn't feel like the WW storyline has any more momentum now than it did four years ago.

Now, there is *one* thing I can think of that the writers could do next year that would seriously screw up Team Dany (and Team Humanity, when it fights the White Walkers): Have Dany herself die.  Her team falls apart, and the dragons go rogue.  That should be the closing scene of Season 7. 

[Joe Republic]

Uh, how did Varys get from Dorne to Dany's armada so fast?

[dead0man]

He borrowed Littlefinger's teleporter.

[Blue3]

It was two months later. Dornish and Tyrell ships are with Dany's fleet.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm trying to think of whether there's any chance of Bran not reuniting with Jon and Sansa in Winterfell next season.  With Arya, it's easy to imagine, since I think she's most likely going to go south to finish her list.  But with Bran, it seems pretty likely that he'll be back in Winterfell.  What I would imagine happening is that Bran and Meera go to Castle Black, and then Edd fills them in on current events, and sends word to Jon in Winterfell that Bran's alive.

The only alternative I can think of would be if they don't go to Castle Black at all.  If Meera can find them a horse (I can't see her carrying Bran around everywhere...they need a horse), maybe she takes Bran home with her, and we get to see Howland Reed.

With Arya, I'd bet on her going south rather than north.  Though she might run into other characters in the Riverlands first.  Possibly the Hound, possibly Melisandre, possibly Nymeria...but the character I'm really hoping she runs into again is Hot Pie.

[RaphaelDLG]

I'm trying to think of whether there's any chance of Bran not reuniting with Jon and Sansa in Winterfell next season.  With Arya, it's easy to imagine, since I think she's most likely going to go south to finish her list.  But with Bran, it seems pretty likely that he'll be back in Winterfell.  What I would imagine happening is that Bran and Meera go to Castle Black, and then Edd fills them in on current events, and sends word to Jon in Winterfell that Bran's alive.

The only alternative I can think of would be if they don't go to Castle Black at all.  If Meera can find them a horse (I can't see her carrying Bran around everywhere...they need a horse), maybe she takes Bran home with her, and we get to see Howland Reed.

With Arya, I'd bet on her going south rather than north.  Though she might run into other characters in the Riverlands first.  Possibly the Hound, possibly Melisandre, possibly Nymeria...but the character I'm really hoping she runs into again is Hot Pie.

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

Also, FYI the couple in the seven kingdoms I'm most shipping is Bran and Meera.

Question:  Littlefinger seems to know that there's more to Lyanna's story than meets the eye... will he go digging and find out R+L=J, then expose it to try to empower Sansa (for his benefit) and topple Jon as KINGINDANORF?!?

[Mr. Morden]

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

What do you mean?  His arm mark hasn't brought the wall down.

[RaphaelDLG]

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

What do you mean?  His arm mark hasn't brought the wall down.

That was tongue in cheek - I predict that Bran will accidentally invalidate the magic protections of the wall by passing through it while still having the Night King's mark on his arm.  I don't see how it otherwise comes down in the show, with no horn or anything. 

I think it's foreshadowed to go down, and that the numerology is foreshadowing that Edd will be the last Lord Commander.

[Mr. Morden]

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

What do you mean?  His arm mark hasn't brought the wall down.

That was tongue in cheek - I predict that Bran will accidentally invalidate the magic protections of the wall by passing through it while still having the Night King's mark on his arm.  I don't see how it otherwise comes down in the show, with no horn or anything. 

I think it's foreshadowed to go down, and that the numerology is foreshadowing that Edd will be the last Lord Commander.

That just seems like an utterly stupid thing for the writers to do.  Would the implication then be that if Bran had never gone north of the Wall to meet up with the 3-Eyed Raven in the first place, then the Wall never would have come down, and the White Walkers would have been forever trapped north of the Wall?  I hope it doesn't work out like that, because it undermines the threat of the White Walkers, if their only hope of being any threat to Westeros relies on their adversary being negligent.

I would also note that while Benjen said that the Wall wards off the dead, the White Walkers themselves aren't dead.  Just the zombies that they control.  The White Walkers could make it past the Wall on their own without knocking it down, and then start raising up a new army on the other side.

[RaphaelDLG]

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

What do you mean?  His arm mark hasn't brought the wall down.

That was tongue in cheek - I predict that Bran will accidentally invalidate the magic protections of the wall by passing through it while still having the Night King's mark on his arm.  I don't see how it otherwise comes down in the show, with no horn or anything. 

I think it's foreshadowed to go down, and that the numerology is foreshadowing that Edd will be the last Lord Commander.

That just seems like an utterly stupid thing for the writers to do.  Would the implication then be that if Bran had never gone north of the Wall to meet up with the 3-Eyed Raven in the first place, then the Wall never would have come down, and the White Walkers would have been forever trapped north of the Wall?  I hope it doesn't work out like that, because it undermines the threat of the White Walkers, if their only hope of being any threat to Westeros relies on their adversary being negligent.

I would also note that while Benjen said that the Wall wards off the dead, the White Walkers themselves aren't dead.  Just the zombies that they control.  The White Walkers could make it past the Wall on their own without knocking it down, and then start raising up a new army on the other side.

Is it your interpretation that the walkers could make it through the children's protective field if only they knew where the hideout was?  Or was it that bran had to be marked before they could go into the 3-eyed raven's hideout?

[Mr. Morden]

How can Bran hang out with Edd when his arm mark brought the whole wall down?

What do you mean?  His arm mark hasn't brought the wall down.

That was tongue in cheek - I predict that Bran will accidentally invalidate the magic protections of the wall by passing through it while still having the Night King's mark on his arm.  I don't see how it otherwise comes down in the show, with no horn or anything. 

I think it's foreshadowed to go down, and that the numerology is foreshadowing that Edd will be the last Lord Commander.

That just seems like an utterly stupid thing for the writers to do.  Would the implication then be that if Bran had never gone north of the Wall to meet up with the 3-Eyed Raven in the first place, then the Wall never would have come down, and the White Walkers would have been forever trapped north of the Wall?  I hope it doesn't work out like that, because it undermines the threat of the White Walkers, if their only hope of being any threat to Westeros relies on their adversary being negligent.

I would also note that while Benjen said that the Wall wards off the dead, the White Walkers themselves aren't dead.  Just the zombies that they control.  The White Walkers could make it past the Wall on their own without knocking it down, and then start raising up a new army on the other side.

Is it your interpretation that the walkers could make it through the children's protective field if only they knew where the hideout was?  Or was it that bran had to be marked before they could go into the 3-eyed raven's hideout?

With the 3ER's cave, I guess the show means for us to think that both the WWs and the wights are warded off from the cave by the Children's magic, though I suppose there's a little room for ambiguity.

For the Wall though, I'm not sure if the same rules apply to both WWs and wights or not.  Like I said, I'm just hoping that the WWs have some kind of concrete plan for how to get across the Wall that doesn't rely on Bran.  If they're going to just say "Woops, you got screwed over by that mark on your arm again", I'm going to be mightily disappointed.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I'm trying to think of whether there's any chance of Bran not reuniting with Jon and Sansa in Winterfell next season.  With Arya, it's easy to imagine, since I think she's most likely going to go south to finish her list.  But with Bran, it seems pretty likely that he'll be back in Winterfell.  What I would imagine happening is that Bran and Meera go to Castle Black, and then Edd fills them in on current events, and sends word to Jon in Winterfell that Bran's alive.

The only alternative I can think of would be if they don't go to Castle Black at all.  If Meera can find them a horse (I can't see her carrying Bran around everywhere...they need a horse), maybe she takes Bran home with her, and we get to see Howland Reed.

With Arya, I'd bet on her going south rather than north.  Though she might run into other characters in the Riverlands first.  Possibly the Hound, possibly Melisandre, possibly Nymeria...but the character I'm really hoping she runs into again is Hot Pie.

I doubt Arya goes south.  In fact, I'd almost bet money on her going north next season.  Walder Frey just had the bad luck of being on the way.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm trying to think of whether there's any chance of Bran not reuniting with Jon and Sansa in Winterfell next season.  With Arya, it's easy to imagine, since I think she's most likely going to go south to finish her list.  But with Bran, it seems pretty likely that he'll be back in Winterfell.  What I would imagine happening is that Bran and Meera go to Castle Black, and then Edd fills them in on current events, and sends word to Jon in Winterfell that Bran's alive.

The only alternative I can think of would be if they don't go to Castle Black at all.  If Meera can find them a horse (I can't see her carrying Bran around everywhere...they need a horse), maybe she takes Bran home with her, and we get to see Howland Reed.

With Arya, I'd bet on her going south rather than north.  Though she might run into other characters in the Riverlands first.  Possibly the Hound, possibly Melisandre, possibly Nymeria...but the character I'm really hoping she runs into again is Hot Pie.

I doubt Arya goes south.  In fact, I'd almost bet money on her going north next season.  Walder Frey just had the bad luck of being on the way.

The problem I see is...how do Cersei and the Mountain survive next season?  Dany's forces are way more powerful at this point, so I'm guessing there will be a final reckoning in King's Landing, presumably ending with the death (or, less likely, capture) of Cersei and the Mountain.  But those are the last people left on Arya's list.  Wouldn't it be anti-climactic if her list gets finished off when she's thousands of miles away?

[Tender Branson]

There can only be one Queen !

[Joe Republic]

A friend of mine suggested another possibility; what if Cersei's end is facilitated by... Jaime?  He already killed one king for merely threatening to do what Cersei just did.

[RaphaelDLG]

A friend of mine suggested another possibility; what if Cersei's end is facilitated by... Jaime?  He already killed one king for merely threatening to do what Cersei just did.

I think this is likely what will happen, and I will be disappointed if things don't end this way.  I think that Jaime will complete his heroic arc by killing Cersei to protect the smallfolk (presumably from another batch of wildfire, and thus fulfilling the valonqar prophecy) and then either kill himself or die heroically shortly thereafter.

[DINGO Joe]

I'm trying to think of whether there's any chance of Bran not reuniting with Jon and Sansa in Winterfell next season.  With Arya, it's easy to imagine, since I think she's most likely going to go south to finish her list.  But with Bran, it seems pretty likely that he'll be back in Winterfell.  What I would imagine happening is that Bran and Meera go to Castle Black, and then Edd fills them in on current events, and sends word to Jon in Winterfell that Bran's alive.

The only alternative I can think of would be if they don't go to Castle Black at all.  If Meera can find them a horse (I can't see her carrying Bran around everywhere...they need a horse), maybe she takes Bran home with her, and we get to see Howland Reed.

With Arya, I'd bet on her going south rather than north.  Though she might run into other characters in the Riverlands first.  Possibly the Hound, possibly Melisandre, possibly Nymeria...but the character I'm really hoping she runs into again is Hot Pie.

Arya and Hot Pie can compare and trade Frey Pie recipes. 

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

A friend of mine suggested another possibility; what if Cersei's end is facilitated by... Jaime?  He already killed one king for merely threatening to do what Cersei just did.

I think this is likely what will happen, and I will be disappointed if things don't end this way.  I think that Jaime will complete his heroic arc by killing Cersei to protect the smallfolk (presumably from another batch of wildfire, and thus fulfilling the valonqar prophecy) and then either kill himself or die heroically shortly thereafter.

Yeah this seems most likely. But if Arya does go South, I'm not sure this ending will be as clear cut. If Jaime is in King's Landing and Arya is in KL trying to kill Cersei, what's the payoff to Arya's character arc? Jaime's is more clear here (unless I guess ending up with Brienne could be Jaime's payoff -- I'd be highly surprised if Jaime survives the series though).