Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

That will be remembered on par with Ned's death.

 Finally White Walkers and Wrights versus Dragons... and while the Dragons cause great initial damage, it looks like the Night King was EXPECTING the dragons, even allowing Jon's plan to unfold and use him and Jorah as bait for Dany. He knew it was coming. He was waiting. He knew the dragon would show up. It was all part of his plan.

 And not how fans thought a Dragons versus White Walkers battle would go, which makes you wonder about the endgame.


 RIP to Uncle Benjen and Thoros, as well.



 Oh and Arya D&D's original character who in no way resembles Arya is totally psychotic. I hated Sansa in season 1, and was "meh" on her until around Lysa's death and she manipulated the Lords of the Vale. But come on. This isn't even close. Arya D&D's original character who in no way resembles Arya is threatening her sister with death. Sansa is reverting a bit back to her spoiled self as well, but it's not even close.

FTFY

[Blue3]

So if White Walkers can kill a dragon so easily (and in fact, it seems like they were waiting for a Dragon to show up this whole time)... then what is the Endgame??? Everyone dies? Tell Arya that Night King is Sansa?

They telegraphed the endgame in this very episode: Someone assassinates the Night King and since he's the Big Bad controlling all the baddies, the White Walker army crumbles without him.  Beric suggested that in this episode, and I'm assuming that that's how it plays out.  There are countless movies where this is how the good guys defeat a seemingly unstoppable sci-fi or fantasy enemy horde, by killing the brain of the enemy forces.

(Your comment about Arya may well be spot on, as she's a trained assassin now.  Heck, maybe she'll take the face of a White Walker in order to get close to the NK.  )

Having said that, I still think there might be some kind of weird twist to all of it, and that the good guys initially set out to assassinate the NK, but then something changes their plans.  Maybe Sam uncovers some info indicating that killing him would actually have terrible consequences, and instead of killing the White Walkers, they come up with a way to "cure" them and turn them back into normal humans(!).

I'm really starting to become a believer in the Bran = Night King theory.

Notice how Bran has become cold and emotionless since downloading all of world history into his mind?

Notice how Bran can now control multiple beings at once?

Notice how the Night King was preparing the chains for the dragon in the first episode of this season? And seemed to know Daenerys and her dragon would come? Notice how the Night King only puts up some token force whenever it has to catch Jon or Bran or Sam? Notice how the Night King set-up Jon & co capturing a wight almost too easily?


Bran wargs into someone in the distant past, maybe to prevent the White Walkers' creation... but becomes trapped... and HE becomes the Night King.

The Valyrian-steel dagger was meant to kill Bran.
Bran gives the dagger to Arya.
That dagger will be used to kill the NightKing/Bran, poetic on many levels.

[Frodo]

A thought just occurred to me -what if this tension between Arya and Sansa is actually a setup mutually agreed upon between the two with the ultimate goal of killing Littlefinger?  Sansa can't execute him outright for obvious reasons (especially since even if Bran has told them both everything about him, they have no actual evidence -yet), and Arya can't just assassinate him out of the blue no matter how much she wants to.  So they have to lure Littlefinger into making a mistake grave enough to justify his death, and what better way to do that than to make him think there is still a conflict between the two sisters that he can exploit?  They're both intelligent, cunning, and ruthless, enough such that they can pull it off.    

[SoLongAtlas]

A thought just occurred to me -what if this tension between Arya and Sansa is actually a setup mutually agreed upon between the two with the ultimate goal of killing Littlefinger?  Sansa can't execute him outright for obvious reasons (especially since even if Bran has told them both everything about him, they have no actual evidence -yet), and Arya can't just assassinate him out of the blue no matter how much she wants to.  So they have to lure Littlefinger into making a mistake grave enough to justify his death, and what better way to do that than to make him think there is still a conflict between the two sisters that he can exploit?  They're both intelligent, cunning, and ruthless, enough such that they can pull it off.    

That is a fair assumption... Granted, I have read the plot-line for Ep. 7 but won't post any spoilers.

[dead0man]

The wife was sympathetic to Sansa when Arya was threatening her.  I, on the other hand, was like "Eff yeah Arya, spit truth girl!"


re:the ice dragon.....where'd the Night King get the four 200 meter long, large iron chains?

[Blue3]

The Army of the Dead were carrying the chains in Episode 1.

[Enduro]

The wife was sympathetic to Sansa when Arya was threatening her.  I, on the other hand, was like "Eff yeah Arya, spit truth girl!"


re:the ice dragon.....where'd the Night King get the four 200 meter long, large iron chains?

Probably out of D&D's assholes.

You know the complete story behind the Night King, and know exactly how he got power and every resource he has at his disposal? Awesome! I wonder why D&D and GRRM told you. Considering the mystery they've been building around him and the extent of his power.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A thought just occurred to me -what if this tension between Arya and Sansa is actually a setup mutually agreed upon between the two with the ultimate goal of killing Littlefinger?  Sansa can't execute him outright for obvious reasons (especially since even if Bran has told them both everything about him, they have no actual evidence -yet), and Arya can't just assassinate him out of the blue no matter how much she wants to.  So they have to lure Littlefinger into making a mistake grave enough to justify his death, and what better way to do that than to make him think there is still a conflict between the two sisters that he can exploit?  They're both intelligent, cunning, and ruthless, enough such that they can pull it off.    

This is like when everyone tied themselves in knots last season trying to explain how Arya survived that stabbing.  This sort of stuff gets quite simple once you realize Benioff & Weiss are simply sh!tty writers who won the lottery and have been bumblef***ing their way through something with little to do with the books ever since they ran out of book material.  They're like some sort of two-headed Mr. Magoo, the ratings keep going up no matter how bad the screenwriting gets b/c the show is still really entertaining to watch in terms of acting and pure spectacle...it's just not ASOIAF at all anymore except in name.

[Mr. Morden]

Do you guys think that Tyrion's "there are other ways to determine succession" talk with Dany is meant to foreshadow some kind of new post-war political arrangement that will emerge at the end of the story, whereby Westeros (or whatever's left of it) ditches the current power structure in favor of some more egalitarian method of choosing leadership?  It came off to me as a clumsy attempt at such foreshadowing.

[Mr. Morden]

Also, a Youtube comment I read had an idea that would have made the plot of this past episode at least slightly less ridiculous:

Have Bran watch Jon's mission from afar, and then, once Jon's crew starts to have problems, Bran wargs one of Dany's dragons, and sends it up north to rescue them.  That way at least you lose the ridiculousness of Gendry's marathon run followed by a raven crossing a continent in a few hours, etc.  Once one of the dragons (under Bran's control) takes off, Dany could even follow it with Drogon, if you need to get her up there as well.

[Frodo]

Back the first episode of this season -does anyone think Tyrion (for personal reasons) deliberately sent the Greyjoys and the Martells to their doom in full knowledge that Euron and his ships were waiting for them?  I find it hard to believe that he proved to be so incompetent in light of how well he conducted the defense of Kings Landing during the Battle of Blackwater.  What he did only makes sense if he held a grudge against Theon for betraying the Starks and sending Bran and Rickon to their deaths (he didn't yet know that Bran survived), and Ellaria and her Sand Snakes for poisoning Myrcella. 

[mvd10]

Do you guys think that Tyrion's "there are other ways to determine succession" talk with Dany is meant to foreshadow some kind of new post-war political arrangement that will emerge at the end of the story, whereby Westeros (or whatever's left of it) ditches the current power structure in favor of some more egalitarian method of choosing leadership?  It came off to me as a clumsy attempt at such foreshadowing.

Or maybe it's meant to make us remember than Daenerys can't have children, so we're even more surprised when she gets children after banging someone (cough Jon cough). Then again, if she bangs Jon in episode 7 (cmon, that's just too obvious) we'll only know whether she is pregnant in season 8. So it would have made more sense to include the succession talk in season 8 if it's a red herring.

Back the first episode of this season -does anyone think Tyrion (for personal reasons) deliberately sent the Greyjoys and the Martells to their doom in full knowledge that Euron and his ships were waiting for them?  I find it hard to believe that he proved to be so incompetent in light of how well he conducted the defense of Kings Landing during the Battle of Blackwater.  What he did only makes sense if he held a grudge against Theon for betraying the Starks and sending Bran and Rickon to their deaths (he didn't yet know that Bran survived), and Ellaria and her Sand Snakes for poisoning Myrcella. 

In the books Euron very likely has some magical abilities, so maybe that explains why he's able to catch everyone by surprise. The show never mentioned anything about Euron's dragonhorn though, so maybe they took away all of his magical abilities in the show and changed him into viking Ramsey. But the first time we met Euron Balon said that Euron lost his mind during a storm at the jade sea. The jade sea is really far away (Asshai is somewhere there) and apparently all the magical stuff happens there. And perhaps something supernatural caused Euron to lose his mind because I can't really see an Ironborn losing his mind during a storm.

[Mr. Morden]

Do you guys think that Tyrion's "there are other ways to determine succession" talk with Dany is meant to foreshadow some kind of new post-war political arrangement that will emerge at the end of the story, whereby Westeros (or whatever's left of it) ditches the current power structure in favor of some more egalitarian method of choosing leadership?  It came off to me as a clumsy attempt at such foreshadowing.

Or maybe it's meant to make us remember than Daenerys can't have children

When was it first established that Dany can't have children?

[Blue3]

After she gave birth to and lost Rhaego.

[Mr. Morden]

After she gave birth to and lost Rhaego.

I thought that was only established in the books, not the TV show.

[Blue3]

After she gave birth to and lost Rhaego.

I thought that was only established in the books, not the TV show.

It's been mentioned in the past in the show too, even if it wasn't part of the prophecy/curse that blood witch spoke of.

[Mr. Morden]

After she gave birth to and lost Rhaego.

I thought that was only established in the books, not the TV show.

It's been mentioned in the past in the show too, even if it wasn't part of the prophecy/curse that blood witch spoke of.

I just don't remember it ever being mentioned in the show until this season.

[The Other Castro]

Do you guys think that Tyrion's "there are other ways to determine succession" talk with Dany is meant to foreshadow some kind of new post-war political arrangement that will emerge at the end of the story, whereby Westeros (or whatever's left of it) ditches the current power structure in favor of some more egalitarian method of choosing leadership?  It came off to me as a clumsy attempt at such foreshadowing.

Maybe Dany and Jon hookup in Season 8, she gets pregnant but dies in childbirth, Jon's heritage becomes widely known and he becomes King but establishes a democracy.

[Mr. Morden]

Do you guys think that Tyrion's "there are other ways to determine succession" talk with Dany is meant to foreshadow some kind of new post-war political arrangement that will emerge at the end of the story, whereby Westeros (or whatever's left of it) ditches the current power structure in favor of some more egalitarian method of choosing leadership?  It came off to me as a clumsy attempt at such foreshadowing.

Maybe Dany and Jon hookup in Season 8, she gets pregnant but dies in childbirth, Jon's heritage becomes widely known and he becomes King but establishes a democracy.

I think Preston Jacobs gets it right in this video here (just watch for about a minute and a half from the point that I linked to):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8pFYrrRfk&t=4m21s

Much of the story is about how broken the system is, and it would be unsatisfying if it ends with some other ruler on the Iron Throne who just continues the same cycle.  Are we supposed to be happy if John or Dany are king or queen at the end, but it's still a hereditary monarchy that'll continue for centuries?  That just perpetuates the system, and doesn't "break the wheel".  A parliamentary democracy seems like too big a reach, but some kind of reform in how society is run seems like it's due.

[RINO Tom]

After bingeing several YouTube videos before season 7 started, I came across the idea that Bran was the Night King and shared it with my friends, who of course laughed it off.  I am glad to see it gaining some steam and legitimacy!

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

After bingeing several YouTube videos before season 7 started, I came across the idea that Bran was the Night King and shared it with my friends, who of course laughed it off.  I am glad to see it gaining some steam and legitimacy!

All due respect, I'd put a $50 against a $10 that you're wrong.

[RINO Tom]

After bingeing several YouTube videos before season 7 started, I came across the idea that Bran was the Night King and shared it with my friends, who of course laughed it off.  I am glad to see it gaining some steam and legitimacy!

All due respect, I'd put a $50 against a $10 that you're wrong.

Respect taken ... but look at that recast of the Night King.

[The Other Castro]

The whole B=NK theory makes no sense. Bran can't even time travel physically, so how could he be that first dude that got stabbed by the children and turned into a white walker?

[Mr. Morden]

The whole B=NK theory makes no sense. Bran can't even time travel physically, so how could he be that first dude that got stabbed by the children and turned into a white walker?

He wouldn't be him physically, only mentally.  I guess the idea is that it would be sort of like when he mentally sent the "hold the door" message back in time to Hodor, except this time he'd be sending his entire consciousness.  It'd be a "Being John Malkovich" type scenario, where his mind ends up displacing the mind of the original guy.

[The Other Castro]

The whole B=NK theory makes no sense. Bran can't even time travel physically, so how could he be that first dude that got stabbed by the children and turned into a white walker?

He wouldn't be him physically, only mentally.  I guess the idea is that it would be sort of like when he mentally sent the "hold the door" message back in time to Hodor, except this time he'd be sending his entire consciousness.  It'd be a "Being John Malkovich" type scenario, where his mind ends up displacing the mind of the original guy.

Well if it's only mentally, then the similarity in appearance to Bran doesn't have any relation to the theory itself and is just a coincidence.