Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Mr. Morden]

I watched the first four of Season 5 yesterday.  One random thing I noticed in Episode 4 is that someone mentions dolphins and sharks.  This got me wondering, has anyone ever compiled a list of all real world animals that also exist in the GoT/ASoIaF universe?  I'm guessing they don't have kangaroos.

[Mr. Morden]

I really hope that the departure from the books is "we're doing our own story now" and not implicit spoilers for the books.

I think it's a bit of both.  I haven't read the novels myself, but as I understand it, the number of different storylines being followed explodes in books 4 and 5.  The show can't really add 20 new characters at this point, and simultaneously follow plots in 15 different settings.  It just wouldn't work for TV.  So they're changing things to condense the number of storylines we follow.

But they're also going to push ahead and spoil future developments in the books as well.  The show is all but certain to finish before the book series does, and the creators have already said that they're going to be telling what's essentially the same story as the novels, and give us the same ending:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/game-of-thrones-tv-show-will-spoil-books

[Mr. Morden]

Come to think of it, it's pretty ironic that new GoT seasons are always aired in April/May, basically the moment of the year when it makes the least sense to say "Winter is coming".

It makes perfect sense here in the Southern Hemisphere.

[Mr. Morden]

I enjoyed episode one, thought episode two was a little underwhelming though the second half picked up a bit, and really loved episodes three and four.

I actually felt the opposite. I adored episode two but was largely indifferent to episode one

I'm actually kind of underwhelmed by the four episodes as a whole.  It feels like a slower build than what we got in the early episodes of last year, or even the year before.  It's most similar to Season 2 in terms of the slow build at the start of the season, IMHO, except that this time there's no War of the Five Kings going on, so the Realm doesn't seem quite so under threat as it did back then.  The show also suffers from the loss of compelling characters like Tywin, not replaced by anyone nearly as interesting.  Arya's storyline also seems less interesting without the Hound.

However, many of the plot threads they're putting together in these early episodes are quite intriguing, and I'm still pretty optimistic about the latter half of the season.

Anyway, I think my favorite of the first four eps so far would have to be the third one.  It was a full hour in length (most of them end up being 50-55 minutes or so, don't they?), and didn't visit quite so many different storylines as, say Episode 2.  So the stories that it did visit had time to breathe.

[Mr. Morden]

Come to think of it, it's pretty ironic that new GoT seasons are always aired in April/May, basically the moment of the year when it makes the least sense to say "Winter is coming".

It makes perfect sense here in the Southern Hemisphere.

But the GoT plot is clearly set in the Northern Hemisphere of whatever planet they're on.

So what?  It's also clearly not set in April 2015.  It's set in a fictional world in which seasons last for more than a year.  What time of year it airs is irrelevant except insofar as the season sets the mood of the show.  And that time of year is "ironic" in the Northern Hemisphere as you pointed out, but not ironic in the Southern Hemisphere.

[Mr. Morden]

[Mr. Morden]

So Episode 3 airs tomorrow, and I've already watched it because of the leak.  This one should generate a fair amount of online controversy, because, while I haven't read the books, my understanding is that the Sansa storyline is a huge departure from the books.  Also, there's a post-sex scene in a separate storyline that I'm guessing will generate some controversy.

[Mr. Morden]

Which post-sex scene did you think would generate controversy?

Tommen/Margaery.  I know the actor is 17, but how old is his character supposed to be?  About 13?  I realize that in the feudal society that GoT is meant to represent, they didn't have anything like our current understanding of age of consent, and there would have been nothing remarkable to them about a kid marrying an adult and having sex like this, but this is usually something that gets whitewashed in fictional depictions on TV, and I'm actually kind of surprised that they went as far as they did: Showing partial nudity of Natalie Dormer (though at an angle at which the actor playing Tommen couldn't see it), and having Tommen talk about how much he loves sex.  I'm trying to think of a comparable scene from any other TV show, and I'm drawing a blank.

I'm wondering how the author of this column from last year will react:

http://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-sex-with-kids/

[Mr. Morden]

Right, there are cases in other shows in which the show makes it pretty clear that the kid is a victim, or that it messed the kid up, but what struck me as unusual here is how "normal" they played it.  Now, like I said, I'm sure it was "normal" in the kind of society that the Game of Thrones is meant to recreate, but it's an aspect of history that TV usually glosses over.

And Lief, you really think the character is meant to be 17, like the actor?  The actor looks younger than he is, which I assume is part of why he was cast.  And he acts pretty immature for a 17 year old.  I'd guess the character is meant to be no older than 15 at the most.

[Mr. Morden]

The actress is 33 - but can look considerably younger, so maybe they are going for early 20s or so?

I would assume early 20s.  Or at least that she was supposed to be early 20s in Season 2, during her brief marriage to Renly, and then tack on however much time is supposed to have passed since then.  I mean, realistically, in that society, would many women of high social standing have gone deep into their 20s without marrying?

[Mr. Morden]

Also, with regard to Sansa…isn't it rather unrealistic that when Littlefinger explains the engagement to her, and tells her "We'll turn around and go back to the Vale if you don't want to go through with it", or whatever version of that he told her….that she didn't demand to know what his plan was, as a condition of her going through with it?

I mean, he clearly has *something* planned, given his "avenge them" comment.  That suggests that he's going to stab the Boltons in the back.  So why doesn't Sansa ask him to explain his plan, if he really wants her to go along with it?

It's a contrivance of storytelling that's rather common in TV.  It's more suspenseful to the audience if we don't know his plan right off the bat, so they're not going to have our point-of-view character ask about it.

[Mr. Morden]

Sansa: This isn't a strange place.  This is my home.  It's the people who are strange.

Ramsay: You're right, very strange.

That one made me lol.

[Mr. Morden]

After the last episode, Claire McCaskill is done with Game of Thrones:

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/19/8624535/mccaskill-game-of-thrones

[Mr. Morden]

I haven't read the books or any spoilers or anything, but there's like, literally, no chance that a TV show will feature a major character murdering his little girl by burning her alive. Even on Game of Thrones. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

There's a fair chance Selyse burns Shireen on her own.

I don't see it happening.  She might *try*, but I'm guessing that at least Davos would stop her or something.

There is a fan theory I read somewhere that the Boltons will pull a sneak attack on Stannis's forces, and in the ensuing chaos, end up taking Shireen hostage.  They seem to be foreshadowing *something* terrible for her, but I don't think they'll go as far as to kill her.

[Mr. Morden]

Balon isn't dead on the TV show.  See the Game of Thrones Wiki (which is entirely based on the TV show continuity):

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Balon_Greyjoy

There's nothing about him dying in there.

[Mr. Morden]

Balon isn't dead on the TV show.  See the Game of Thrones Wiki (which is entirely based on the TV show continuity):

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Balon_Greyjoy

There's nothing about him dying in there.

So 2 episodes in season 2, and then one scene in season 3. He hasn't renounced his claim of independence, has he? Surely they'll have to wrap that up at some point.

No, he hasn't renounced his independence.  He's basically in the same position Stannis was in in Season 3.  No longer actively fighting against the crown, but just kind of stuck on his island, where he serves as king.

They were definitely still mentioning the Greyjoys as recently as last season though.  Tywin had a conversation with Oberyn in which he said something like "Balon Greyjoy is still in open rebellion", and then of course you had the scene in Episode 4x08 where Theon baited the final group of Ironborn in the North into the Boltons' trap.

I'm confused because they did the prophecy thing (and just reminded us of it as well). Surely they have to carry it out then?

They don't *have* to.  A prophecy can be wrong, can't it?  That witch in Cersei's flashback said that Cersei would only have three children, but she had four.  If you remember, in Season 1, they talk about she had a child with Robert who died in infancy.  It's mentioned in a couple of scenes, including at the 5:27 mark of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY5As-RP1MM

Anyway, in that Stannis/Mel scene in this week's episode, Mel mentions Rob and Joffrey by name as proof of the death leeches working, but conveniently leaves out the name of Balon, since he's still alive.

[Mr. Morden]

Theon's sister is credited on IMDB for the next episode I think so the storyline will probably be addressed.

No, she was credited on IMDb for last week's episode, which is further evidence that IMDb is totally unreliable on such things.  It's like a wiki where anyone can add whatever BS credit they like, just to mess with fans.  It happens with Game of Thrones all the time.

[Mr. Morden]

Anyway, I'm sorry.

Good.

Time for "The Mother's Mercy".

[Mr. Morden]

I think I saw a breakdown of character screentime somewhere that showed Arya still coming in 6th place in screen time this season so far (behind Jon, Cersei, Tyrion, Dany, Sansa, not necessarily in that order).  She's only been in four episodes, but she's featured in every single scene in her storyline, and so gets a decent share of screen time.  I think the preview for next time showed her appearing again next week?  If she's in both Episodes 9 and 10, then she'll probably end up with more screen time for the year than she got in Season 4.  (Granted, Season 4 was itself kind of a down year for her.)

[Mr. Morden]

Well, actually I enjoyed Bran's even less, so I'm glad he hasn't been in this season at all.

Much of Bran's storyline up to this point has been pretty boring.  However, his storyline is the one that I was looking the most forward to seeing what happens next, since now that he's met the Three Eyed Crow guy, we've finally met someone in the story who might know what the conflict with the White Walkers is all about.  What's their motivation?  Where did they come from?  What's their relationship with the Children?, etc.

Unfortunately, that's the one storyline that we ended up *not* getting this season.  Quite frustrating.  I fear that when we next see Bran, Three Eyed Crow guy will have already given him an exposition dump, and they won't rewind that for the audience to see.  We'll no longer really be seeing things from Bran's POV, because he'll have a bunch of info that we, the audience, don't have.  I hope this doesn't turn into Lost, where you start to get a growing number of characters who have critical pieces of information about the big picture, but the story goes through some silly gymnastics to avoid that information being communicated to the audience.

[Mr. Morden]

Here's a fun Hardhome mashup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNoB4O9Mg8

[Mr. Morden]

I'm hearing that tonight's episode has leaked as of just an hour or two ago, and it's being shared on some private invite-only Torrent sites.  A couple of spoiler-ific pics from the ep are circulating the interwebs.  It's being discussed on the IMDb board for Game of Thrones, among other places.

[Mr. Morden]

3. A few internet articles are raising the same hope that I did that she's not really dead.

That's what I was wondering.  The story that Shireen was reading in her book, that she then summarized to Davos.  I think it went something like this:

---
A knight polishes his shield before going to battle with a dragon, in the hope that the shield will act as a mirror, and fool the dragon.  But the dragon recognizes that it's just a knight with a shield, and burns him anyway.
---

That seems like it had to be foreshadowing…something or other.  Are they actually trying to fool the Lord of Light or something, creating an illusion of a burning Shireen? That seems weird, but so does the decision to burn her in the first place.

[Mr. Morden]

Does Stannis have any cousins or anything?  Unless the Shireen burning was a big illusion, I feel like Stannis has got to be doomed now.  He'll probably get offed by Brienne, or something.  So who inherits the throne (in the eyes of the Baratheon supporters) if Stannis is dead?  Would it fall to Gendry, even though he's a bastard?  Will Season 6 be "The Search for Gendry"?

I'm not completely on the Stannis hate train. I loved Shireen, but consider the larger picture. R'hllor is as good as confirmed...

R'hllor is confirmed, but he seems rather inconsistent about what kind of sacrifices he demands.  One day, you can just have the king have sex with a priestess, and it gives you an assassin smoke monster.  The next day, you can kill two out of three usurpers just by drawing some blood from (but not killing) a bastard with kingsblood.  Why weren't leeches for Shireen, rather than death, good enough to stop a snow storm?  Also, what does this even get them?  Help through the snow so that they can win the next battle?  Will that battle end the war, and secure the throne for Stannis?  No, there's no indication that it does.  It just helps them with this next battle I guess, after which there'll presumably be a whole new set of problems.  Hardly seems worth becoming a monster over.

In any case, with Stannis and the Boltons now irredeemingly bad, I hope they just club each other to death, before the knights of the Vale march in to squash whoever's left from the Baratheon-Bolton conflict, and rescue Sansa.  Believe it or not, the hero in the story is now this fellow:

[Mr. Morden]

Another thought on Stannis:

In Episode 8, Theon says to Sansa that he (Theon) "deserves" everything that happened to him, before listing all of his crimes, including killing those two innocent farm boys.  Given what Stannis did just one episode later, is this foreshadowing some horrible fate for Stannis?