South: Southern Law Commission Act
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Associate Justice PiT
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« on: April 13, 2015, 11:22:10 PM »

     This bill is now before the Legislature. I would have brought it up sooner, but I did not realize the Governor was dealing with these in a thread on the regular AFE board.

Southern Law Commission Act
1. The Commission on Southern Law and Code (hereafter CSLC) will be established upon passage of this bill. It shall be chaired by a member of the Legislature and staffed by two other citizens of the region.

2. The members of the CSLC shall be selected by a quorum in a joint meeting of the Judicial Overlord and the Legislature. Any member of the CSLC may be removed by the same process.

3. The goal of the CSLC shall be to sort the region's statute into a continuous document reflecting structure in the form of code sections and clearly defined section headers.
     a. The deadline for a completed product will be set to six months from the passage of this bill, with possibility for extension based on progress towards the goal.
     b. The completed product shall be posted on the Wiki, linked to at the top of the regional statute page.

     As its sponsor, I will advocate for it shortly.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 11:31:31 PM »

     One of the issues with the laws as they are now is that it can be difficult to tell what laws are in a given area. The fact that many acts do not have descriptive names serves to compound this problem.

     My hope here is to be able to create a proper statute that organizes and edits together laws by subject. With this, one could go to a certain section, whether it be "tax" or "militia" or something else and do a Ctrl+F search to determine if there exists law addressing whatever issues one would like to address.

     The work required to do this would be substantial. At the same time, this would make the statute much more useable for those who are not familiar with the laws of our region and make it much more accomodating to new members of our region.
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Flake
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 05:39:12 PM »

I'm not too sure we have the regional activity levels to have three members serve on this, but I'd like to hear your argument regarding that. I support the idea, and it seems like a very healthy idea.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2015, 11:30:10 PM »

     That is a concern for me, and part of the reason for me suggesting three members is to help keep it going with the ebb and flow of activity.

     While my other proposal on regional history would benefit heavily from a panel of three to protect against bias in its writing, this really could get by with one very industrious member. I would be willing to volunteer myself for this in such case, considering my significant knowledge of Southern law.

     The problem is that if I leave the Legislature before the six month mark, there might not be anyone interested or able to carry the project on. We could amend it to allow the Legislator leading the project to continue with this in case of departure.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 09:19:28 AM »

I inherently hate committees because I think they are inefficient. This type of commission is one that is for a niche group of people, and I fear if PiT leaves, it will just die, because we already struggle to keep a full legislature, imagine how difficult it would be to have people serve on this commission and remain active on it!

That is not to say we shouldn't keep our laws organized, but I don't see the need to create a committee that will surely fall apart before it gets its feet off the ground.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 05:38:57 PM »

     I understand your apprehension. I remember that the budget committee was a success, but Yelnoc and I were both really good about driving it. If there is interest in going that route, I might amend this to be a project of one to be led by myself.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 09:26:50 AM »

Is there any interest in participating it outside of yourself though? Having a one man commission sort of defeats the purpose of the commission. Tongue
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 10:49:02 PM »

     With all these new additions to the region, I could probably take on a couple of apprentices to help with this. I don't know how much they would add to the project itself, but it would be a great way to get them involved with Southern politics.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 10:24:01 AM »

While I like the idea, I gotta agree with Duke on this one.  One thing I've learned during my time here is that Atlasia committees tend to die once the founder or initial group of members leave.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 02:06:21 PM »

     I agree with X that, barring inactivity, dumping the chair is probably an inherently bad idea. How about this as an amendment:

Southern Law Commission Act
1. The Commission on Southern Law and Code (hereafter CSLC) will be established upon passage of this bill. It shall be chaired by a member of the Legislature and staffed by two other citizens of the region. The chair of the CSLC may continue to hold that post upon leaving the Legislature for any reason.

2. The members of the CSLC shall be selected by a quorum in a joint meeting of the Judicial Overlord and the Legislature. Any member of the CSLC may be removed by the same process.

3. The goal of the CSLC shall be to sort the region's statute into a continuous document reflecting structure in the form of code sections and clearly defined section headers.
     a. The deadline for a completed product will be set to six months from the passage of this bill, with possibility for extension based on progress towards the goal.
     b. The completed product shall be posted on the Wiki, linked to at the top of the regional statute page.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 06:42:26 AM »

     I agree with X that, barring inactivity, dumping the chair is probably an inherently bad idea. How about this as an amendment:

Southern Law Commission Act
1. The Commission on Southern Law and Code (hereafter CSLC) will be established upon passage of this bill. It shall be chaired by a member of the Legislature and staffed by two other citizens of the region. The chair of the CSLC may continue to hold that post upon leaving the Legislature for any reason.

2. The members of the CSLC shall be selected by a quorum in a joint meeting of the Judicial Overlord and the Legislature. Any member of the CSLC may be removed by the same process.

3. The goal of the CSLC shall be to sort the region's statute into a continuous document reflecting structure in the form of code sections and clearly defined section headers.
     a. The deadline for a completed product will be set to six months from the passage of this bill, with possibility for extension based on progress towards the goal.
     b. The completed product shall be posted on the Wiki, linked to at the top of the regional statute page.


In light of that change, this looks good to me.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 05:20:17 PM »

It is even necessary to create this though? Why can't you we do this without creating any sort of committee? Say you, PiT, want to organize our laws. What stops you from doing it with or without this bill?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 06:39:14 PM »

     Strictly speaking, it is not necessary. Passing this would create a greater impetus to see this through and make it easier for the regional government to "own" it. That is about what I can say on that matter.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 10:49:30 AM »

     Strictly speaking, it is not necessary. Passing this would create a greater impetus to see this through and make it easier for the regional government to "own" it. That is about what I can say on that matter.

If we need the government to own it, I guess it's fine to pass. I just see it as more needless bureaucracy that will just be repealed once you, PiT, leave since no one else will really be interested in it. Tongue
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2015, 10:34:59 PM »

     Strictly speaking, it is not necessary. Passing this would create a greater impetus to see this through and make it easier for the regional government to "own" it. That is about what I can say on that matter.

If we need the government to own it, I guess it's fine to pass. I just see it as more needless bureaucracy that will just be repealed once you, PiT, leave since no one else will really be interested in it. Tongue

     The problem is that, realistically, this project will never end. With my amendment, I can leave the Legislature and keep it up. Eventually we will all leave Atlasia, and who knows what will happen then.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2015, 10:44:37 AM »

You're right, and I should have left long ago..
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2015, 09:06:32 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2015, 09:08:34 PM by Speaker PiT »

     I would beg to differ. Your presence and input is valued, Duke. Things may have been a little slow for my taste around here before, but it happens and we've improved on it. We've had excellent discussion in this very thread.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 12:50:37 PM »

     I would beg to differ. Your presence and input is valued, Duke. Things may have been a little slow for my taste around here before, but it happens and we've improved on it. We've had excellent discussion in this very thread.

No no, I just meant in general. When you said we don't play this game forever, I realized I'm coming up on my 7th anniversary in this game! Aside from the year I took off from late 2011 to late 2012, I've been in office almost nonstop!
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 10:36:35 PM »

     Since the debate has gotten quite far, let's move it along. I suppose that my colleagues accept my amendment to the bill. Is there anything else for us to do or should we move to a final vote?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 02:39:46 AM »

     Alright, I think it is time that we proceed to a final vote.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2015, 10:13:21 AM »

It's more or less a simple vote on this. I won't oppose it if this is what people want, but I'm still just not a believer in forming committees to do tasks like this that can be done without one. It's just adding another piece of red tape to jump through. If we want this though, I won't stand in its way.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 02:46:59 AM »

     I'll go ahead and vote aye.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2015, 05:35:57 AM »

Aye
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2015, 10:01:18 AM »

Aye
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Flake
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2015, 06:27:39 PM »

x Flo
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