South Gubernatorial Debate Commentary Thread.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Flo hasn't the slightest idea what he is talking about on healthcare, from the nature of the federal law to the timeline of its passage. I can understand struggling with it, even the legendarily detailed Emperor Scott (not PiT who was retired by then ) needed assistance and he went and got it. Flo never did the same (my PM box constains nothing of the sort), again "other priorities".

I don't expect Deadprez to be a master of all the minute details, but god bless him for demanding the region finally act to give its people a choice in healthcare providers. Nine months is a disgrace considering that were it not for the loss of Scott so suddenly and tragically, this region would have a choice in healthcare providers and would have blazed the trail for other regions to follow. Instead we have finger pointing, blaming it on Nyman needing to act first (WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! I wrote that section damn it), Emperors were weren't even in office at the time and creating false accusations of hypocrisy on that basis.

Yet we are still left waiting. Where is our name your price tool, flo?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You quoted the wrong bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Look the Ace of Spades, you lose.
June 27, 2014, 09:37:28 am

And what Senators are going to explain to you the god damn bill I wrote with shua as good as shua and myself?

God I miss Scott.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is not your fault that Scott got driven off by assholes, Flo. However, you are responsbile for the actions and inactiosn during your term and at some point someone has to actually lead on the issue.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its actually a joint administration.


Clause 3 is the whole crux of this debate. All five regions have ANHC monopolies because none of thme have acted since June 27th. A bill as simple as the one that PiT introduced would changed that or as complex as the partially finished one that remained clutched it Scott's cold hands after his departure would work.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Look the Ace of Spades, you lose.
June 27, 2014, 09:37:28 am

My point still stands

No, it doesn't. You are saying he cannot criticize you for the status quo because predecessors didn't act either. No one is comlaining because you didn't take action in September or November. They are saying you should have acted since January.

I've talked to a Senator about amending the Act so private insurers can still insure people who are willing to pay for their insurance. Whether or not he will introduce it, I have no idea, but I'm not entirely sure it's valid to amend a federal law on a regional level.

The current act does allow that, Governor Flo!

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The federal law clearly states the establishment of health exchanges, where people can actually buy their insurance. Plus, it also states the responsibility of regions to administrate the exchanges. You don't have to override any federal law in order to act.

Wonderful news! Thank you for pointing that out, JoMCaR! I truly wasn't sure if doing so was constitutional, but I believe Speaker PiT already introduced a bill to the Legislature about this, and I'm sure it'll pass.

It is not your fault that Scott got driven off by assholes, Flo. However, you are responsbile for the actions and inactiosn during your term and at some point someone has to actually lead on the issue.

I did say I talked to a Senator about this issue, so I don't know why this is considered inaction

They obviously didnt' point you to the right bill. That may be action, but it sure as hell aint' effective action. Did you contact Duke?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I talk about this a lot, and I would have certainly been willing to point you where to go to get things done as would shua I'd expect. Yet you bypassed us both no? What about Lumine? What about Duke? What About Superique? I think that speaks to the seriousness of the committment to the issue. If I was a Governor passing a bill on healthcare, I wouldn't go to the armed services committee or Judiciary committe member to get help with federal statute, and at the very least I certainly wouldn't completely avoid the best resources available for assistance. 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Or did you talk to Speaker PiT about his bill that introduced in the legislature? Surely you communicate with the Speaker of the legislature about upcoming legislation, especially one that is somewhat connected to an issue that has come up in your campaign, if not all of them? There were a million roads to get to the information flo, why did it take an eleventh hour revelation in a debate commentary thread? Governors lead and act. I see plenty of following in this thread though.

How about something that came up entirely whilst you were in office. You say you oppose abortion after the second trimester (I think you said that in the debate)?

Did not the Roe v. Zuwo decision happen whilst you were Emperor, Flo? I believe it was at least two months ago if not more, no? If that is so, then why have you not acted in two months to stop what you seem to consider the murder of viable human life?

I voted to pass MArokai's ban on late term abortions. I am happy to see regions now empowered to act on this issue, but it has created a vacuum in which late-term abortion is legal and yet again no region has acted? If this issue matters, where is the action?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What a vicious right-wing smear campaign (under the guise of "commentary", of course) going against the great Governor Flo.

So the Governor has phoned an assist from the Pacific region. Nice.

Its pretty sad when your only response to cold hard facts is to cry and whine about smears. The only smears going on here were the ones earlier launched against Deaprez for daring to raise lapses in the Governor's unquestionable record. I thought we got rid of the Emperorship, but now it seems the Governor is beyond question.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its nonesense when the Governor was forced to admit he was reading the wrong bill?

It is nonsense he cannot answer why he at every turn avoided going to the places that could have steared him to the right bill?

It is nonsense that in four months nothing has changed in regards to that policy?

It is nonsense that a Governor who opposes late term abortion cannot answer why he has failed to to ban it when he has had almost three months to do so?

No, what is nonesense is you coming in this thread and attacking me, my party, Deadprez. I remember when Flo was regarded as a joke by most every party in this game, including is own Progressive Union. I am glad he is more highly regarded now and he has made great strides in the past two years. People grow and improve and learn from their mistakes. Your Party's founder was a highly controversial figure who inherited the Governorship after being in the game mere days and he was treated like dirt that first year.


I have praised flo as well, but that doesn't mean he is god. He makes mistakes and he has to own them just like any other incumbent in this game. When you reach the point, when who you are friends with determins the standards you are held too, then trully how is it any different then what Labor does. Flo has a right to run on his successes, Deadprez has a right to run against his deficiencies and the people of the south deserve an honest campaign hashing out those differences. It doesn't deserve this slandering of legitimate critiques as you have done here Turk.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Really though, please, I'm sure that your repeated attempts to slander the good Governor are shining through to the people of the South as what they are: desperate attempts by the failed Federalists of the South to return to power.

I don't recall a Federalist ever losing reelection to the office of Emperor. I do recall our last Emperor being driven off by defamatory jerks who decided to resort to name calling instead of having a legitimate and honest discussion about a disagreement.

You can continue to repeat the lies again and again as many times as you want and pray to god enough people will see them as the truth to get your way. I have seen it over and over again these past two years and it is nothing knew. This futile and counter-productive approach is doomed, regardless of the outcome of this race.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Like March 2013.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If I may pop in just shortly. Yankee, I have greatest respect of your work in regards to healthcare legislation, including that one mentioned in this debate that enables regions to act. You said yourself - since June, no region has acted upon it. No let us think back - then in June, was there much public action on it? No. The truth is, the people don't really care about one law or the other that the Senate just passed. If this law requires no action at all, fair enough. If it however expects action to be taken by the regions, then, in my opinion, it is imperative to get the regions to know this law and to act. You can put all the blame you want on Flo here, for not enacting this law. But just as much blame must be put on that this law was, until the mention in this dicussion, practically out of the focus of the public. I haven't heard Flo talk about this in February, yes. But neither have I heard DeadPrez, or you for that matter.

Before the obvious answer comes, no, I'm not the guy from the Pacific having been phoned to act here. Just to clarify that shortly.

I actually have brought it up on many occassions and there was public discussion of sorts last summer but the only executive to take an interest was Scott.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I could have done more as SoIA to push for action from the regions as well. I decided to prioritize the Pacific Stimulus and other initiatives because, frankly, they were easier to decode. I thought it would be better to line the regions up behind simpler tasks first... and it mostly worked. Once I saw that the model was good, the plan was to try and get something done with the health care exchanges. Unfortunately, right when I was ready to transition to more complex issues, the administration started falling apart and it became an embarrassment to serve. Maybe the health care exchanges were a victim of me not staying in, but I don't regret leaving.

The point is, though, no one actually cares about the response to the health care reform. It was without a doubt an enormous accomplishment, but it's also a little difficult for people to get behind because it takes serious effort to actually understand and figure out. Inaction is a shortfall on the part of many of us here, but I don't think it's worth crucifying anyone over. How many people PMed Flo to urge him to do something about this issue?

The healthcare law was a victim of bad luck all around last year so one can hardly blame you or Scott or anybody for that kind of uncontrolled event. And for the record no one is crucifying flo, for prioritizing other issues. The voters can make the call as to whether that was the right decision, the issue here is that it is legitimate to critize that decision in an election it is not a smear campaign. If we are suppose to have competative elections, just what is the basis suppose to be if you cannot criticize the record? Personality? I think we can all agree we would rather not have Deadprez attacking flo as a person or vice bersa. At the end of the day it is an issue and one that can be rasied in a campaign.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I understand why the opposition is clinging to this healthcare market thing, but Cranberry is right: enacting a healthcare market isn't going to get my cock hard or really increase activity in the south. No region has taken action on it. Further, I left office almost a year ago now, and no mention of this has ever come up until this election, and we had almost a year to talk about it or propose it.

Clinging to it? sh**t Duke, the whole purpose behind the law's section was to give regions a choice. Surely, it is legitimate for a campaign based on freedom and individual liberty to then pick up the ball and run with it and make it an issue in a region that hasn't acted? This is exactly what I anticipated happening in those regions that did not act, elections cause the issue to come up because candidates would use it to run on.

Competative elections will increase activity in an elections game, that is common sense and comeptative elections require campaigns on the issues and opponents highlighting issues that incumbents haven't priortized, that is all that is going on here.

That is incorrect Duke. There was discussion about it for more then a month after you left office. But as you know perfectly well, the period of August through October and December through January was an outright living hell for me and it was difficult to make much headway on any big project. Scott was driven off and Hagrid couldn't get to it before all hell broke lose. It wasn't because thei ssue was unimportant, Duke, it was in my view bad luck. However, no we are past all that. It is time for the region to act.

Also, I am getting tired of being compared to DeadPrez. When I first joined Atlasia, yes, I was more controversial, I helped lead the birth of a new movement, but I worked my tail off and was as active as I could be. I wasn't a do-nothing during my first term in office and then was unaware i hadn't been re-elected. None of us can help DeadPrez left a bad first impression on us, but it's pretty unfair to try to say he's just like me starting out. Or Flo for that matter. Flo was always enthusiastic about the game even if people gave him a hard time initially.

You had lapses in activity too. I almost ran against you because of them Duke, before I decided that the inactivity of the Game Moderator and sham confirmation hearings were a bigger fish to fry. I love you man, I don't want to fight with you in public over this.

I never said he was "just like you". I said we all struggled when we first started out. You want to talk about my first term?  It is understandable that someone lacking the support network would grow disinterested. This place is complex and very intimidating, and not everyone is going to be a natural talent even at the lowest of elected levels.

You know the problem here is I don't see what anything Deadprez has done wrong with regards to this campaign. He ran for an office that was probably going to be unopposed and has cobbled together a set of issues on which to run, which the debate has highlighted. He is not polised, he doesn't have the best record to be sure and those are legitimate issues to work off of for flo.

As for me, I saw a post that involved some factual innaccuracies and I was in the best possilbe position to correct the record so I created this thread. Since then this thread has traversed quite a bit of ground, but seemingly we are left at the same point. An incumbent made his priorities, an opponent is criticizing them, which is the natural "flow" (pun intended) of an election and yet several people, including you yourself, are trying to make that process into some kind of scandal.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Further, issues like abortion and healthcare markets aren't things that really need to be at the top of the list to help better the region. I'd be happy to establish the healthcare marketplace, but attacking Flo for not doing anything with it is unfair when no one else has touched the issue at any level of government.

Late-term abortion. It is not an extreme position though. The federal bill was written by Marokai after all.

The problem Duke, is that we have repeatedly seen discretion handed to the regions, the regions fail to act and then those who call for their abolition giddly wring their hands in the background at the failure. Be it abortion, healthcare, or any other policy set. The regions should debate and settle these issues and if the voters don't like the way in which that is done, they can vote out their regional officies and do it a different way. That is the true path to competition and the true path to activity.

Maxwell ran against me and one of the critiques was that I was ignorning the legislature. I listened to that and paid a lot of attention to the chamber over the next two months, but then as you know I was cut assunder by lack of internet. It was arguably a good thing to have a competative race for the first time since the collapse of Cottonfield. The unversal popularity bit is good if you are the incumbent benefitting from it, but it is not so for activity. I would know more then anyone about that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

But, if he is going to talk about how inactive the legislature is, which is an attack directed at me, or how Flo has been bad for the south, which is an attack directed at my party, then it's fair game to fire shots back at him.

Instead of dragging the entire region through the mud, he needs to convince us why he would be a better governor and why we should trust installing him into the governor's mansion when his trackrecord is one of no accomplishments and inactivity.

So far, all I have seen is long paragraphs of things that make little sense to me, like complaining that bills are passed without unanimous consent and how our debates right now are not "serious." If we required things to pass with unanimous consent, then we'd never pass anything. 

Deadprez probably got carried away when he said that about flo. Earlier he acknowledged some of Flo's previous accomplishments.

As for the legislature, it has been more dull this term then last.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think you underestimate yourself.

This game is known for giving people second chances.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

First off, I want to see the regions fully implement their end of the healthcare bill so that the economy and healthcare sectors in particular can see the full benefits. This was the product of a solid colloboration of members of three different Parties and though it is not perfect, I would like to see it brought to fully implementation before we hit the one year mark of the bill's passage (which would coincide with the ending of this term that I am seeking).

Wrong again.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

First off, I want to see the regions fully implement their end of the healthcare bill so that the economy and healthcare sectors in particular can see the full benefits. This was the product of a solid colloboration of members of three different Parties and though it is not perfect, I would like to see it brought to fully implementation before we hit the one year mark of the bill's passage (which would coincide with the ending of this term that I am seeking).

Wrong again.

You know that no one reads speeches that are that long. I don't

That was short. One medium paragraph and four small ones. You people are fing lazing.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, this certainly looks active. I'll add this to my required reading for later!

It's a couple pages of Yankee nitpicking on Flo's record to make his own (failed) party's joke candidate seem better by comparison, this is all under the guise of "commentary" and "getting all sides of the issue." Of course Yankee condescendingly makes the usual tired and repeated references to past events as he thinks that being around longer makes him automatically correct.

Really, if I were you, I wouldn't bother with it.

The hilarious part is that you are responding to a guy who was playing game almost four years before I was.

Of course Yankee condescendingly makes the usual tired and repeated references to past events as he thinks that being around longer makes him automatically correct.

What did I ever do to you Turk? I like don't even know you hardly, but yet you have this image of me as this out of touch nut case wrapped up in the past and oblivious to the present.

I am a historian by hobby and when I see historical innaccuracies, I feel compelled to act, especially when yes, I do know what the situation is regarding that matter. I do not know everything though and there many polices areas that I am not an expert on. Where I can, I like to help. Lumine didn't create a thread for commentary and I felt if the debate was to continue on this topic of healtcare, the innaccuracies should be corrected so that people of the South can be best informed about the issues and positions. I never said other viewpoints were excluded, and if you wanted to you could have easily posted your own critiques and questions regarding Deadprez. However, you first post was a wholesale attack on the thread, and lies about my intentions with creating it.

If I were to take the same approach with you as you do me, I would say you are a historical revisionist who views facts as items of expedience. But I don't trade in personal slander Turk, it ruins the game. If you want to hate me for no good/valid reason that is fine, but I would hope you don't take this approach with many others for it will quickly make the game rather unpleasant for a lot of people, you most of all. So a little advise courtesy of my knowledge of past () posters just like you, ease the frig up a little, man.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What has happened to my thread?

It wasn't me. No one wants to hear from me anymore.

Thats a lie, I want to hear from you.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sanchez wanted to return for months and the date just expired on his restriction a few days ago. Dude was registered in FL from mid 2011 until October of last year and he lives there in real life. I contacted him about two weeks ago and asked if he ever planned to move back to the South and he said he had wanted ot for months but coundn't (move restriction). I didn't even have a clue when the restriction would come off and for all I knew it was months from now when I first contacted him. I then found out and told him, and he can verify this. I will gladly agree to post my PMs to him. There was also no mention of party changing either.

I have always found strategic registration unsavory going back to Tmth's days in 2009 and either not mentioned a region it or selling the benefits of the region in which they live in real life and the opportunities there. Most people go where they live naturally.

The only people who have joined this region that I contacted prior to actually live here. I think the record speaks for itself.

I have a clear conscience about what I have done in this game. The only thing I feel guilty about is not having been able to help people at times when they could have made a difference, last fall being the most recent, and of course recruiting Hamilton (he had like 16 posts at the time, shoot me. )

Since the question has come up in the debate, I would say the South needs a limit in advance of the elections be it a week like most others, five days, whatever.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That is what he told me and I believe some others as well. Sanchez just got caught up in the flurry of other shannigans going and people jumped to conclusions.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't even think the sentiment is widespread PiT, but there are some who prefered knocking us out to combating LAbor and even handed the Presidency to the party that tumbled this nation into darkness. TPP could have easily won the Presidency for themselves had they taken a different course and kept their second Senate seat. They had popular potential candidates and a right that would have gladly supported a a deal to keep labor out.

I think even for a party defending its candidate, the rhetoric and attacks have been excessive getting far too personal and far too bitter, when it could have been issue focused. That says a lot as well.