vandals destroy michael brown memorial less than 24 hours after it is dedicated
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  vandals destroy michael brown memorial less than 24 hours after it is dedicated
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Author Topic: vandals destroy michael brown memorial less than 24 hours after it is dedicated  (Read 4726 times)
publicunofficial
angryGreatness
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 08:13:48 PM »

I've seen roadside memorials for people who died driving while drunk, and I didn't question whether they deserved to be memorialized. A person can be worth mourning, especially by their family or community, even if they committed a crime.

Yes, but there's obviously a context here.

Of what? You not liking who Michael Brown was or what he now stands for?
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Simfan34
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2015, 08:31:48 PM »

I've seen roadside memorials for people who died driving while drunk, and I didn't question whether they deserved to be memorialized. A person can be worth mourning, especially by their family or community, even if they committed a crime.

Yes, but there's obviously a context here.

Of what? You not liking who Michael Brown was or what he now stands for?

...of what he did. And what does he stand for?
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Matty
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2015, 09:52:18 PM »

Why is Michael Brown being memorialized?
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Brewer
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2015, 09:58:06 PM »

Why is Michael Brown being memorialized?

Because his family, friends, and community have every right to mourn his death just like anybody else. He should not be thought of as some kind of scum unworthy of posthumous remembrance simply because of some poor heat-of-the-moment decisions he made at the end of his life. Don't be a douchebag.
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Lief 🗽
Lief
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 11:13:29 PM »

The idea that no one that has ever committed a crime (especially one that is not very harmful in the grand scope of things--it's not like the guy was a serial killer) deserves to be memorialized by his friends and family is insane and horrible.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2015, 11:30:36 PM »

Okay? None of that justifies vandalizing a memorial his loved ones put up.
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Brewer
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2015, 11:38:48 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2015, 02:14:44 AM by True Federalist »

Not very harmful - so it's really not that bad to rob stores and threaten officers' lives in hindset? Um, no. Look, I'm getting to the crime itself and the mentality for it. It is a brazen, uncivilized action that a normal, law abiding person would not do compounded with a secondary illegal actions. To just whitewash that away and say everyone slips up now and again is nonsense. How many people commit multiple major felony "slip ups?" To give them a pass is ludicrous at best. The proper thing in a civilized society is to say that, yes, flagrant violations of law are just that, regardless of intent or meaning behind them in the perpetrator's mind, the actions are still committed with malice of forethought. To say anything less is giving this generation and future generations the right to say that major crimes are just minor inconveniences that can be corrected and overlooked in time. That is the complete opposite of US history, law enforcement, jurisprudence, and responsible citizenship. Crimes should be punished, criminals should be called what they are, and attempted cop-killers will, 9/10 times, be shot down before they can pull out their sidearm or steal it from police. These are facts and his family and friends are memorializing a felony thief.

Lovely sermon. For you to honestly sit and whine that his family and community should not be allowed to mourn the death of this kid simply because he stole some cigars from a gas station and made a poor, heat-of-the-moment decision in a situation where facts have been distorted and neither you nor I can profess as to what exactly occurred is absolutely inane. You sound like a moron, and it's unfortunate that someone would honestly devote this much effort into trying to shame the people of Ferguson and the family and friends of Mike Brown on an internet forum for mourning the loss of a loved one. It's pitiful.
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Oak Hills
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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2015, 02:12:36 PM »

Come to think of it, am I the only one who has a difficult time understanding why killing a cop is considered so uniquely transgressive and supremely evil?

No, you aren't.  I don't get it either.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2015, 02:47:13 PM »

I've seen roadside memorials for people who died driving while drunk, and I didn't question whether they deserved to be memorialized. A person can be worth mourning, especially by their family or community, even if they committed a crime.




Exactly. It's just cruel. I put a portion of the blame on the professional agitators who riled up the area for months after the incident, but it still doesn't excuse this.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2015, 02:49:10 PM »

The idea that no one that has ever committed a crime (especially one that is not very harmful in the grand scope of things--it's not like the guy was a serial killer) deserves to be memorialized by his friends and family is insane and horrible.

There's a good case for the idea that the family of someone whose actions took away the friends and families of countless others - Lubitz, Tsarnaev, etc. - should have the decency to mourn far away from the victims of their loved ones' murders.

That's not the case here, though.
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Nathan
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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2015, 03:23:28 PM »

The idea that no one that has ever committed a crime (especially one that is not very harmful in the grand scope of things--it's not like the guy was a serial killer) deserves to be memorialized by his friends and family is insane and horrible.

There's a good case for the idea that the family of someone whose actions took away the friends and families of countless others - Lubitz, Tsarnaev, etc. - should have the decency to mourn far away from the victims of their loved ones' murders.

That's not the case here, though.

Exactly, in the privacy of the family members' homes. Not out in public subtly trying to have the memorial become a blatant reminder to others in the community of the constant controversy.

...no, no it's not 'exactly'. That is the opposite of what Ray Goldfield was saying. There is a line between a probable petty criminal who died under suspicious and controversial circumstances, and people who did things that are actually worthy of the kind of above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty discretion on the part of the bereaved that you're calling for here. It is not, in this case, a fine line. It is a big, fat, glow-in-the-dark line. Also, is what you're accusing the bereaved of subtle or blatant? It can't be both.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2015, 04:29:11 PM »

What does it matter what a person did in life to affect the rights of the grieving bereaved relatives of that person? Even your Lee Harvey Oswalds and Timothy McVeighs have relatives and loved ones, and while you might justifiably think that the world is a better place for not containing Timothy McVeigh, that doesn't affect his loved one's equally valid right to mourn.

In this case, an alleged petty criminal who was never brought to trial or convicted was extrajudicially killed by law enforcement, even if out of self defense. We'll never know for sure if he was actually guilty under the rules of our criminal justice system because Michael Brown never got his day in court. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not aware of "shot by law enforcement without a trial" as a valid punishment for theft in the United States.

Anyway, I thought the whole debate about the mourning of a loved one vs. society's hatred of that loved one's actions was solved way back with Antigone, Sophocles' amazing dramatic tale of the daughter of Oedipus going out of her way to give her half-brother a proper burial despite his status as a traitor and Thebes' king Creon decisions that Antigone's brother Polynices' corpse should be exposed and eaten by animals. Antigone's moving respect for her loved ones and family over all the rules of society, risking death itself to show the proper veneration of her family even in direct contravention of all the rules of the world she lived in, is directly relevant to this case. Does it matter what Michael Brown did? Does it matter who he may or may not have tried to kill? He is the child of mourning parents who have the right and even the duty to mourn publicly. Mourning and grief are fundamental and bedrock principles of any decent society, and even the wicked dead are truly unfortunate indeed if not even one person wails and moans about their passing.
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shua
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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2015, 05:31:45 PM »

Very true about allowing family members to mourn - though I'm guessing the ALA does not do this for every black kid that gets killed.
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 05:50:51 PM »

I've seen roadside memorials for people who died driving while drunk, and I didn't question whether they deserved to be memorialized. A person can be worth mourning, especially by their family or community, even if they committed a crime.




Exactly. It's just cruel. I put a portion of the blame on the professional agitators who riled up the area for months after the incident, but it still doesn't excuse this.

You're blaming the Ferguson Police Department? A very progressive opinion, I'm surprised.
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CountryClassSF
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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 06:58:50 PM »

The 6'4'', 250 lb+ "kid" just robbed a store, was running from the cops, then reached into a cop's car to attack him and take his gun to shoot him in his own vehicle. I would have shot the little sh*t myself black, white, or otherwise. Wilson was protecting his castle and his own life per training and was justified in using force. - Reasoning, USN trained PO2, small, medium, heavy arms, police situation, and tactics training

The Democrats are wrong on this issue and only use it to stir things up. The majority of wrongful force cases are blown out of proportion due to media response, false reporting, and sensationalization, and the good part of them see legal action on the cops, e.g., http://nypost.com/2015/04/01/cop-that-berated-uber-driver-stripped-of-badge-and-gun/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/police-video-shows-deadly-shooting-of-black-suspect-in-tulsa-1428913303

You younger kids coming on the Internet and complaining about life or death, high pace situations from an armchair or beside a video game console is laughable and why the millennials really need to mature a bit more, I really hate my generation sometimes.

Amen brother!
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2015, 10:23:33 PM »

Most of the posts in this thread are disgusting.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2015, 04:57:33 PM »

The idea that no one that has ever committed a crime (especially one that is not very harmful in the grand scope of things--it's not like the guy was a serial killer) deserves to be memorialized by his friends and family is insane and horrible.

but he was a black, you see.
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