Vote No to the Electoral Reform Amendment

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned: the role of the RG in case of a deadlock in the commission could lead to the politicization of the role, at least in perception.

[Adam Griffin]

xSimfan

Don't let them gain any more ground with this latest plot of theirs.

Who's 'they'?  People who like competitive elections?

THE GRAVE OF KARL MARX IS JUST ANOTHER COMMUNIST PLOT

If the chronically inept Governor were so against the idea, then why did he bring it up for a vote in his region? What is he not telling us?

[Adam Griffin]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned: the role of the RG in case of a deadlock in the commission could lead to the politicization of the role, at least in perception.

Thank goodness I was nominated and became RG before all of this hoop-la. They'd flense me at the mere mention of even thinking about becoming RG with that provision in there now!

[bore]

I guess it's possible that an RG could draw an outrageous gerrymander, but if they did they wouldn't find themselves RG for much longer.

More importantly though, due to the mobility of the atlasian population and the thin margins of practically every seat it's impossible to draw a cast iron map for anyone.

[Simfan34]

I guess it's possible that an RG could draw an outrageous gerrymander, but if they did they wouldn't find themselves RG for much longer.

More importantly though, due to the mobility of the atlasian population and the thin margins of practically every seat it's impossible to draw a cast iron map for anyone.

But would they?

[bore]

I guess it's possible that an RG could draw an outrageous gerrymander, but if they did they wouldn't find themselves RG for much longer.

More importantly though, due to the mobility of the atlasian population and the thin margins of practically every seat it's impossible to draw a cast iron map for anyone.

But would they?

No. They wouldn't.

The RG can be dismissed by the president at any time and for any reason and the presidential elections are impossible to gerrymander so the RG will not be the same party as the president a lot of the time, even if there is a skillful north carolina style gerrymander (which, again, with the levels of mobility we have, is impossible).

Any outrageous gerrymander would be incredibly unpopular and, I speak from experience here, there are always citizens willing to be RG.

[Clyde1998]

Thank you to everyone who plans to (has already voted) vote No to this amendment.

The Northeast and Pacific polls are open - and the early returns, in both regions, are positive.

[DemPGH]

I abstained in the Senate and am not terribly passionate about this either way, but I am leaning against. In addition to some of the concerns expressed, I guess I like that At Large elections draw on support without regard to boundaries. Districts and regions seem redundant in a way.

I'd also caution that we tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried (how many tries is that?) to redraw regional boundaries and could come up with nothing that would satisfy anything close to everyone. It just went on and on. I just see a lot of potential issues and lot of partisanship with this, like what we have now.

[bgwah]

You make a good point homelycooking.

In the past there were instances of people saying, "So and so is safe" vote for me, and this actually cost Feds their second seat back in April 2013. This time, I assumed the quota would be 21 or 22 but it hit 23 and that was with much lower Fed Turnout then I was hoping for.

I don't think people don't understand this though homely. In the past the preference counts were usually rather close. This time there was a group of people who didn't much care for labor, loved Polnut and there was no one else they were extremely passionate about so blew Polnut through the ceiling (whereas I merely danced on the ceiling. Couldn't resist ). They know that some flexibility is necessary to get your prefered guys in, what they often aren't aware of is the latest count and that was always a problem on the right. I remember in December 2013 at the end not knowing who to vote for at that point because the counts hadn't been updated. And so aside from bgwah who knew exactly how someone needed to vote as each vote was cast and therefore was able to message people accordingly to get them out and win that second seat by a fraction of a percent, most people don't have the latest numbers in their head.

Yeah, homely, I was pretty good at working the STV system. Nobody else has bothered, which is a shame, since it can be very competitive.


https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/March_2011_Special_Senate_Election
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/April_2011_Senate_Election

There are other elections where the final round doesn't look as close because later voters strategically knocked out candidates stronger in later rounds.

[Clyde1998]

No campaign round logos

The no campaign has released round logos for supporters of the campaign. This design is intended to be simple, but recognisable. Inspiration was taken from the YesScotland logo. There are addition logos, aside from the main campaign logo - with the colour of each logo representing each of the main six parties in Atlasia.

   

A few campaign posters will be released in the near future.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I abstained in the Senate and am not terribly passionate about this either way, but I am leaning against. In addition to some of the concerns expressed, I guess I like that At Large elections draw on support without regard to boundaries. Districts and regions seem redundant in a way.

I have long preferred the best balance of the legislature and I agree that At-Large is better than districts in terms of counterbalancing the regional Senate seats. I think both serve an important role and I would hate to see Regional Senate seats lost of course. Districts could serve the same purpose as At-Large but chances are they will be less representative of the people in that regard.

I know people hate it when I mentioned it, but back in the day, having Duke on a nationwide ballot every four months drawing support from all over the place for a competent, centrist Senator was critical to rebranding and restoring the popularity of that conservative party. Especially when the other Conservative party had Mint/Libertas for that first year. By the second year Dallas and Shua were more competition but by then the work was complete and the party was back.

It is also a good prelude for a Presidential Campaign. One of the reasons I pushed JBrase to run in October 2012, was because he had done so well in the July 2011 special election and won numerous leftist votes. Of course my heart was in it more so than his and thus why we placed third.

[homelycooking]

Two regions are now in their third day of voting on the amendment, while there is, as yet, no voting booth for the other two regions. There's no telling how long voters in the Mideast and Midwest will have to wait, but at least we're "giving the Governors something to do" and "keeping them active".

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Two regions are now in their third day of voting on the amendment, while there is, as yet, no voting booth for the other two regions. There's no telling how long voters in the Mideast and Midwest will have to wait, but at least we're "giving the Governors something to do" and "keeping them active".

I'm glad I live in a region where we are getting time to consider this major reform before voting on it.

[homelycooking]

Two regions are now in their third day of voting on the amendment, while there is, as yet, no voting booth for the other two regions. There's no telling how long voters in the Mideast and Midwest will have to wait, but at least we're "giving the Governors something to do" and "keeping them active".

I'm glad I live in a region where we are getting time to consider this major reform before voting on it.

And who knows how much time you'll have!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Two regions are now in their third day of voting on the amendment, while there is, as yet, no voting booth for the other two regions. There's no telling how long voters in the Mideast and Midwest will have to wait, but at least we're "giving the Governors something to do" and "keeping them active".

I'm glad I live in a region where we are getting time to consider this major reform before voting on it.

And who knows how much time you'll have!

Hopefully enough so that the OAkvale-Clyde debate will occur at least somewhat before the large bulk of the votes are cast.

[Lumine]

Two regions are now in their third day of voting on the amendment, while there is, as yet, no voting booth for the other two regions. There's no telling how long voters in the Mideast and Midwest will have to wait, but at least we're "giving the Governors something to do" and "keeping them active".

I'm glad I live in a region where we are getting time to consider this major reform before voting on it.

And who knows how much time you'll have!

Hopefully enough so that the OAkvale-Clyde debate will occur at least somewhat before the large bulk of the votes are cast.

I have been coordinating a debate with the Tracker, but I need an answer form the potential moderator before I can open it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think it's a shame that attempts at electoral reform are, yet again, being argued against not on its merits, but because of perceived shadowy partisan conspiracies. It's no wonder things rarely change.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think it's a shame that attempts at electoral reform are, yet again, being argued against not on its merits, but because of perceived shadowy partisan conspiracies. It's no wonder things rarely change.

Kind of like when you guys tried to lower the amendment ratification threshold whilst an amendment to abolish Regional Senate seats was sitting in the queue. Good times, Good Times.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think it's a shame that attempts at electoral reform are, yet again, being argued against not on its merits, but because of perceived shadowy partisan conspiracies. It's no wonder things rarely change.

My problem with the "reform" is that I'm not comfortable with eliminating at-large representation. If you want districts, that's fine, but abolish regional representation instead.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There clearly needs to be a longer period between an Amendment passing the Senate and the people having their say on it.

[ilikeverin]

Hello there.  I am probably the only Atlasian still around who was actually involved in redistricting discussions when they were still done (Al, were you ever a Governor when there were districts?).  During my long tenure as Governor of the Midwest, I served on several redistricting commissions.

And I rise in opposition to this Amendment.  I am not opposed to districts.  Indeed, such a plan seems relatively sensible.  I remember with great pleasure my time on the redistricting commissions.  But the problem is in the seats that are being abolished.  At-large seats allow the will of Atlasia as a whole to be noted.  Proportional representation is an important part of the Atlasian system.

Regional senate seats, meanwhile, do nothing whatsoever that district seats would not also do.  As a member of many redistricting commissions, my primary self-assigned purpose was to continuously remind folks in charge of redistricting that districts were not regions; most every time, my advice was ignored, and the commission picked seats that looked suspiciously close to regions.  There's no reason why this would not persist in the future.  Under the plan currently considered, this would lead to effective double-representation of regions, while, under a much more sensible plan that abolishes regional seats, the regions could maintain their current levels of representation.  Regional seats have the added detriment of being distributed unfairly across different parts of Atlasia.  District seats could allow for continued constituency elections that do not represent Atlasians unequally.

As such, I oppose the idea of bringing back districts, if all we do with them is replicate the continued regional Senate seats.  Please vote "no" on this Amendment.

[Hatman 🍁]

Hello there.  I am probably the only Atlasian still around who was actually involved in redistricting discussions when they were still done (Al, were you ever a Governor when there were districts?). 

*Cough*

I was a governor during at least one re-redistricting process.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Hello there.  I am probably the only Atlasian still around who was actually involved in redistricting discussions when they were still done (Al, were you ever a Governor when there were districts?).  During my long tenure as Governor of the Midwest, I served on several redistricting commissions.

And I rise in opposition to this Amendment.  I am not opposed to districts.  Indeed, such a plan seems relatively sensible.  I remember with great pleasure my time on the redistricting commissions.  But the problem is in the seats that are being abolished.  At-large seats allow the will of Atlasia as a whole to be noted.  Proportional representation is an important part of the Atlasian system.

Regional senate seats, meanwhile, do nothing whatsoever that district seats would not also do.  As a member of many redistricting commissions, my primary self-assigned purpose was to continuously remind folks in charge of redistricting that districts were not regions; most every time, my advice was ignored, and the commission picked seats that looked suspiciously close to regions.  There's no reason why this would not persist in the future.  Under the plan currently considered, this would lead to effective double-representation of regions, while, under a much more sensible plan that abolishes regional seats, the regions could maintain their current levels of representation.  Regional seats have the added detriment of being distributed unfairly across different parts of Atlasia.  District seats could allow for continued constituency elections that do not represent Atlasians unequally.

As such, I oppose the idea of bringing back districts, if all we do with them is replicate the continued regional Senate seats.  Please vote "no" on this Amendment.

     I am reminded of a proposal by NE Representative JoMCaR to elect Class B Senate seats with two districts and three at-large seats. It would retain an element of at-large representation and require districts that differed significantly from the regions. Considering the issues that you have brought up here, it might be an effective way to address them.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think it's a shame that attempts at electoral reform are, yet again, being argued against not on its merits, but because of perceived shadowy partisan conspiracies. It's no wonder things rarely change.

My problem with the "reform" is that I'm not comfortable with eliminating at-large representation. If you want districts, that's fine, but abolish regional representation instead.

Over my dead body, Crazy Kal!!!

[Adam Griffin]

I think we can all agree when I say

HANG THE REGIONS
HANG THE REGIONS
HANG THE REGIONS NOW

...but obviously we can't all show up to the voting booth when something like that is on the ballot...