Federal Reserve Reform Repeal Act (Final vote)
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  Federal Reserve Reform Repeal Act (Final vote)
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Author Topic: Federal Reserve Reform Repeal Act (Final vote)  (Read 1586 times)
windjammer
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« on: April 24, 2015, 06:27:20 AM »
« edited: May 10, 2015, 05:03:06 PM by Mideast Senator and Senate speaker windjammer »

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Sponsor: Windjammer
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TNF
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 07:44:16 AM »

Could we get the text of the bill being repealed by this legislation?
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 08:05:20 AM »

Could we get the text of the bill being repealed by this legislation?

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=206062.msg4475889#msg4475889
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Cranberry
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 10:07:12 AM »

I believed the bill to be reasonable when being debated, hence why I voted for this, and I see no reason to oppose it now.

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Senator Cris
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 10:26:50 AM »

I echo the comment of Senator Cranberry.
I supported it in the past and I see no reason to not do the same now, but I'd like to hear Senator Windjammer's arguments in favor of his proposal.
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windjammer
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 06:52:59 PM »

My fellow senate colleagues,
The reform was simply wrong. That's why I voted against it during the previous senate session.
Here are the debates: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=206062.25

I will write a longer post later (when my internet problems will be resolved).
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 06:46:20 AM »

I will be waiting on Senator Windjammer's detailed input. I'm very wary of undoing this.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 09:06:18 AM »

Yes, I don't really see reasons to undo this, I supported the reform then and I still support it now.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 10:11:34 AM »

It looks to me, having read the thread of the bill in question, like this reform attempts to put everyone on the same page, which is probably a good idea. I don't see that the GM is stripped, so I'll await WJ's defense of his repeal. If anything, I prefer a GM to have limited responsibilities, if for no other reason than the one I appointed took my trust and used it to utterly troll the bejesus out of the game and threaten me. Any sane person with a sense of self-preservation would have responded as I did. Granted, that's probably quite rare, but nonetheless a basically unstable person could abuse the position, to put it very mildly, as happened to me. If everyone is on the same page rather than the GM just hovering over the place doing whatever he wants, it's probably a good thing. Partnerships are probably good.
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Barnes
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2015, 12:30:19 PM »

Seeing as the Federal Reserve forms part of my department under the present act, I must advise the Senate to vote against a blanket repeal.  If Senator Windjammer has specific issue he would like to address within the system, I am always open to hearing them.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2015, 12:53:00 PM »

I opposed the legislation when it was passed, and I support its repeal now.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2015, 03:02:55 PM »

Not a fan of double jeopardy. I will vote against this proposal.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2015, 04:57:20 PM »

My biggest issue with bringing this back is that it adds another layer of bureaucracy and dull work for the GM position which no one enjoys and won't tangibly benefit the game in any manner.

Leaning NAY for now.
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windjammer
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2015, 07:20:50 PM »

Now I have access to internet with my computer.

My opposition to the Federal Reserve was because:
1) Cynic, who was GM at this time, was doing a great job as GM and I didn't understand why his position was weakened for whatever reason, there was no rationale reason to strip this duty because he was doing a good job. I don't support weakening offices, like I didn't support the senate reforms who basically stripped every VP's duties. Cynic was doing a good job. No reason to make this office less powerful.

2) And the biggest reason: I'm a big supporter of parlementarism in Atlasia. And this is one of my main disagreements with the former president, who wants to empower the executive power. Indeed, with this reform, the Federal Reserve is now controlled by the SoIA, so by the president considering he can fire him without any problem. I prefer it to be controllet by the GM, because the president can't fire him and we senators can dismiss him by a 3/5 majority.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2015, 09:53:17 PM »
« Edited: April 28, 2015, 02:25:25 PM by HagridOfTheDeep »

Except monetary policy is policy, not a god power. Different administrations would take different actions, which makes the realm of the Federal Reserve inherently political. This is how it is in real life, too. A different chairperson will take different actions. With these changes, the executive can play off of the GM. Before, the GM was just sort of playing with himself (forgive the word choice).

Senator, your reasons just don't make that much sense to me.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2015, 11:56:40 AM »

Yes, Senator Hagrid summed up points against this act and for the reform perfectly. Let us reconsider the scenario, pre-reform and now:

Pre-Reform:
1. Person A (GM) sets circumstances -> 2. Person A (GM) creates policies to solve the problems created by himself just the minute before

Post-Reform:
2. Person A (GM) sets circumstances -> 2. Person B (SoIA) creates policies to answer them/solve problems/whatver

Frankly, I see no point whatsoever in the first version of the process outlined. It would be just like Hagrid said: playing with yourself.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2015, 01:02:54 PM »

I heard Senator Windjammer's arguments for this act, but still I won't support it.
I supported it the last time and I don't see reason to not do the same now.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2015, 02:28:33 PM »

Why not just make the Fed unplayable (or an "NPC") in Atlasia? No one cares about it anyway as evidenced by Nix's example and it isn't going to change gameplay one bit.
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Blair
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2015, 04:33:26 PM »

I'm currently leaning against voting for this, I don't see a major issue with the executive having control over this-in fact I doubt it makes a big difference
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windjammer
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2015, 05:31:51 PM »

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And controlling monetary policy is a god power. I would rather prefer monetary policy to be controlled indirectly by the senate rather than the president.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 12:26:12 PM »
« Edited: May 01, 2015, 12:28:55 PM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

Okay you're all wrong.


Monetary is not a god power (Sorry Windjammer). However it was at least a non-playable power or at least the Fed was a non-playable position (okay, Talleyrand gets a cookie for not being wrong).

Now let me me correct Cranberry and by extension Hagrid

Pre-reform: GM simulates a Fed policy and economic conditions  - Senate and President react with policies in response to those circumstances. This is where the action is anyway, legislation and therefore the best place to position that interaction in my view.

Post Reform: GM simulates economic conditions - Executive formulates Fed Policy and both Senate and PResident react with policy. In this case the executive is now responding with policies to a Fed decision it helped make, so either way you have that same problem, just in a different place.
 
There is still an interaction and someone will still be responding to themselves. The difference is where you want to place that interaction. The difference for me was thus over who controlled the Fed seeing as how both instances produced an interaction and I have long supported, a dynamic and powerful GM. Therefore I voted nay last time and will vote aye on this bill, and you can bet your boots there won't be any reluctance about that partner. Tongue
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windjammer
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 09:39:21 PM »

Senators?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2015, 09:24:15 PM »

Looks like we are getting about time for a vote. Considering this is a repeal bill, beyond the statements for or against, there probably won't be much input, though obviously this is not the only bill that has been languishing.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2015, 10:53:43 PM »

Well yeah. There's nothing that could really convince me that this bill is a good idea. The senate voted on this matter not that long ago, and I think its members made the right call.
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windjammer
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 07:25:18 PM »

Well so I motion for a final vote. Senators have 24 hours to object.
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