police murder megathread
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 09:58:12 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  police murder megathread
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7
Author Topic: police murder megathread  (Read 16295 times)
bedstuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2015, 08:47:46 AM »

The people decrying the actions of those rioting like to tut tut, click their tongues and say things like, "violence begets violence," as if to say that these people are bringing the harsh reaction of the state upon them by acting violently in the first place.

The problem? This is not "in the first place." This is the violence begotten by the violence visited upon these communities by the state for centuries in one form or another. You don't get to let the state murder a man for no reason and then turn around and say, "They started it!" when the community from which he hailed lashes out.

I totally get your point, but I think that's dehumanizing for "these communities." 

If you rationalize the burning down of a store by black people, you make that the expectation, right?  You're saying black people are so degraded as people that they can't help but burn down a pharmacy or resort to violence and looting.

If it's understandable behavior, why would anyone invest in these neighborhoods?  What would anyone loan money to a business in these neighborhoods? 

And, I think that's what black people in these poor areas need, jobs and investment.  I think they would do better with jobs and investment than people being totally understanding and not tut-tuting at looting and violence.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2015, 09:04:27 AM »

I'm not excusing, and I'm not rationalizing. I'm saying that there's a context in which it must be understood, and in which it is frequently not understood. Willfully not understood.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2015, 10:18:10 AM »

The New York Times headline on this is actually "Rival gangs unite" - Seriously?
Logged
Mechaman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,791
Jamaica
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2015, 10:28:08 AM »


Yeah I mean I really do sympathize with the rioters, but encouraging this kind of interracial clashing is not and should not be excused by any decent person.  Otherwise they are really no different than the New York Draft rioters who took out their anger by targeting blacks and black owned businesses.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2015, 10:32:10 AM »

What those rioters did last night wasn't about Freddie Gray.  It looked like a bunch of drug-fueled thugs partying.  And by the way, a thug can be white as the clean snow, they can be pink - they're still thugs, as the Mayor called them.

Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2015, 10:32:58 AM »

What those rioters did last night wasn't about Freddie Gray.  It looked like a bunch of drug-fueled thugs partying.  And by the way, a thug can be white as the clean snow, they can be pink - they're still thugs, as the Mayor called them.

You don't get to use racially coded language to talk about this and then get off the hook by saying you mean white people too. You don't.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2015, 10:34:15 AM »

What those rioters did last night wasn't about Freddie Gray.  It looked like a bunch of drug-fueled thugs partying.  And by the way, a thug can be white as the clean snow, they can be pink - they're still thugs, as the Mayor called them.

You don't get to use racially coded language to talk about this and then get off the hook by saying you mean white people too. You don't.

You'll have to take that up with the black Mayor. That is what she labeled them. A thug is someone who is out of control and who destroys  things for fun.  Not everything is about race. 
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2015, 10:34:56 AM »

Not everything is about race. This is. You don't get to hide behind Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2015, 10:35:24 AM »

James Holmes was a thug.  Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were thugs.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2015, 10:37:28 AM »

Bullsh**t. Not one news article describes them as thugs. You're only doing so opportunistically.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2015, 10:40:40 AM »

Bullsh**t. Not one news article describes them as thugs. You're only doing so opportunistically.

That's good, a news article shouldn't describe them as anything. My opinion is they are thugs. The Mayor's opinion is they are thugs.  The Governor's opinion is they are thugs.  Political correctness should not come before public safety.  You have to label things what they are.  "Racially coded language" line is a way to intimidate people - What would you label people who riot? What fits the non-word policing level of acceptability?
Logged
The Free North
CTRattlesnake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,567
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2015, 10:43:57 AM »

Non-violent protest is still the best form of civil disobedience
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »

Non-violent protest is still the best form of civil disobedience

How about a protest against disproportionate amount of crime coming from certain cities and certain communities. How about a protest against denying reality?

Our mothers and fathers didn't fight the Civil Rights movement for destructive communities. It is truly a sad day for our country and for the Old Line State.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #88 on: April 28, 2015, 10:45:48 AM »

Non-violent protest is still the best form of civil disobedience

How about a protest against disproportionate amount of crime coming from certain cities and certain communities. How about a protest against denying reality?

Which communities are those? The thug ones, I presume? Which can be all white people?
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #89 on: April 28, 2015, 10:46:19 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Urban.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #90 on: April 28, 2015, 10:46:56 AM »


"Urban."

"Thug."

Got it. Loud and clear.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #91 on: April 28, 2015, 11:50:54 AM »


"Urban."

"Thug."

Got it. Loud and clear.

Mr. Obama just called them thugs.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #92 on: April 28, 2015, 12:06:22 PM »

I dislike the way this debate is being framed.  Either you’re a supporter of violence and destruction of our neighborhoods or you’re a milquetoast suburbanite tut-tuter?  No, I don’t think so. 

I understand the context and the neglect and suffering felt in these neighborhoods.  I’ve spent years working in some of them, which is why it breaks my heart seeing this happening.  But I understand where this is coming from.  I just happen to think registering voters and coordinating a campaign to vote out the corrupt corporatist administration that has been running this city and neglecting these neighborhoods for decades would be a lot more productive than burning down senior centers and pissing on the dreams of people who have been working hard to turn these communities around.   


I don't believe I've seen anyone saying that riots are the most productive way of achieving change. Have I missed where somebody said that?


"Urban."

"Thug."

Got it. Loud and clear.

Mr. Obama just called them thugs.

I love that you're still trying to justify yourself. It'd almost be cute if it wasn't so disgusting.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2015, 12:08:29 PM »

So only certain people are allowed to use the word "thugs?" Like I asked, what is the appropriate non-microaggressive PC term you've all agreed on for us to use? Is "criminals" a dog whistle?
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2015, 01:36:45 PM »

I can't believe I agree with DeadFlagBlues, but I agree with DeadFlagBlues Tongue.
Logged
Ebsy
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,001
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2015, 02:13:41 PM »
« Edited: April 28, 2015, 02:16:46 PM by Ebsy »

It was not too long ago that there were a bunch of drunk white coeds rioting in Kentucky over losing a basketball game. I don't remember people labeling them thugs or animals.

Edit: In St. Louis, we use the term "undesirables" to refer to any black people spotted in white neighborhoods. It has the same racially coded message as urban or inner city.
Logged
ChainsawJedis
Tj Hare
Rookie
**
Posts: 116


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2015, 02:16:18 PM »

Yes, why exactly should any of us be made to apologize or even feel remorse over these outbreaks of destruction? The simple fact is that large portions of America - particularly white America - simply don't understand the level of systemic poverty, discrimination and lack of opportunity that exists (and has existed for decades or more) in areas where this behavior typically arises. All too many people want to refer to these people as animals, when in reality, it is a response from them being treated like animals.

They're not looting because they want free stuff. They're not burning down buildings in "their community", because nothing in their so-called community belongs to them in the first place. When dealing with areas where a majority of fathers and young sons are being hauled off for responding to their institutionalized poverty in mostly non-violent but unconventional ways, where generation upon generation has found itself denied equal opportunity, where education truly lacks in structure - let alone at home - and where justice seemingly doesn't exist, these people lash out because it is all that releases the stress and all that sends a message. Nothing around them is truly indicative of a community. Nobody at any other time ever listens.

The only way things change, whether pacifists and non-violent propagandists like it or not, is through systematic agitation of the power structures that wish it would stay the same. Sometimes, that means action like what we're seeing. Drawing the venom out is necessary, because it's seeping all over the place under the surface anyway.

Of course, latte-loving white suburbia is going to frown and flex its big, lazy mouth through internet commentary that calls them "animals" and says "shoot them all on sight!", because they haven't the faintest clue nor care about what is truly going on in these places except when it is to indulge their worst stereotypes with 24/7 media coverage. How inconvenient it must be for and how much skin in the game must there be from all of these tough-on-crime suburbanites and rubes who watch from afar and prognosticate about entire groups of people and their motivations! If there was a God, then these sorts of people would be blessed with the same sort of unrest and injustice within their own little posh ecosystems.  
Logged
The Free North
CTRattlesnake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,567
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2015, 02:30:28 PM »

I don't think any logical person on here is going to argue that there are people in this country who have been systematically oppressed and discriminated against.

However, there is still absolutely no excuse for violence and looting. The systemic oppression of blacks in the south during the Civil Rights Era did not lead to the type of violence were see today from protestors. Everyone from the president to local leaders in the community has condemned this behavior and rightfully so.

Whether some on the left want to admit it or not, frustration is not a historical or logical justification for violence and non-violent protest remains the most effective means of civil disobedience.

Destroying your city does nothing for your cause.
Logged
Ebsy
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,001
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2015, 02:32:44 PM »

I don't think any logical person on here is going to argue that there are people in this country who have been systematically oppressed and discriminated against.

However, there is still absolutely no excuse for violence and looting. The systemic oppression of blacks in the south during the Civil Rights Era did not lead to the type of violence were see today from protestors. Everyone from the president to local leaders in the community has condemned this behavior and rightfully so.

Whether some on the left want to admit it or not, frustration is not a historical or logical justification for violence and non-violent protest remains the most effective means of civil disobedience.

Destroying your city does nothing for your cause.
There were dozens of race riots during the Civil Rights movement, especially following MLK's assassination. Pretending like this sort of disorder is unprecedented is willful ignorance.
Logged
CountryClassSF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,530


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2015, 02:35:54 PM »

This kind of vicious lawlessness is why many people feel uncomfortable in urban areas
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.059 seconds with 12 queries.