police murder megathread

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I always love when white conservatives criticize black people for rioting as a "bad way to convince people." As if a peaceful protest would change their minds.

     So given a choice between a peaceful protest (doesn't change their minds) and a riot (doesn't change their minds and destroys their own homes and workplaces), we shouldn't want them to go with the former?

Serious question: did you know about Freddie Gray before the rioting began? I didn't know about Freddie Gray before I read about the riots.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Here's a sample of upvoted comments from the Baltimore Sun:

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-university-of-baltimore-closes-amid-high-school-purge-threat-20150427-story.html#page=1&panel=comments

Those comments are on every article on the internet.

I wouldn't read too much into those comments: Stormfront and other white supremacist websites encourage members to spam articles, youtube videos, reddit and 4chan with racist rhetoric in order to make it racism seem "mainstream".

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Serious question: did you know about Freddie Gray before the rioting began? I didn't know about Freddie Gray before I read about the riots.

Considering the riots didn't start until Saturday and the story was all over on the news earlier in the week, anyone who was paying attention to the news should have known about Freddie Gray before the riots.

What media outlets covered the death of Freddie Gray? I visit the New York Times' website every day and did not see an article about Freddie Gray or a death in Baltimore. I've been paying attention to the news on a more sporadic basis as of late but this behavior is actually pretty reflective of the average American.

We're actually discussing Freddie Gray on this forum now. Although I'm sure that the Baltimore riots will turn-off most of the public, there will be segments of the public that will be more concerned about Gray's death than riots. Again, I doubt that these sympathetic segments would have heard about Gray before the rioting.

In short: rioting is effective at raising awareness. It's possible to condemn rioting and acknowledge that rioting has played an important role in American history. Although endemic rioting was behind the inception of "backlash voting", it also produced a keen awareness among public officials that the living conditions in inner-cities posed a risk for all Americans. This isn't disputable: discussions of the material conditions and slum-like conditions played a much more prominent role in American public life after Watts.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

What media outlets covered the death of Freddie Gray? I visit the New York Times' website every day and did not see an article about Freddie Gray or a death in Baltimore. I've been paying attention to the news on a more sporadic basis as of late but this behavior is actually pretty reflective of the average American.

We're actually discussing Freddie Gray on this forum now. Although I'm sure that the Baltimore riots will turn-off most of the public, there will be segments of the public that will be more concerned about Gray's death than riots. Again, I doubt that these sympathetic segments would have heard about Gray before the rioting.

The CNN link posted here in Reply 5 was published last Tuesday, April 21.  Stories were run on the national nightly newscasts around the same time.  It was in the news.

The only thing riots will do is make many people less sympathetic to Freddy Gray, not more.

I don't watch CNN so I can't comment about their coverage but my point still stands: clearly, more people will be aware of Freddie Gray because of the rioting. Will riots make people less sympathetic to Freddie Gray? Of course but they'll also make people more concerned about Freddie Gray because the story will have a prominent place in the news. Will people be more willing to restrain police departments if it stops a perceived threat to "law and order"? It's quite possible.

Extra-judicial killings, police brutality, rampant and unnecessary incarceration have plagued Black communities for decades. Black voters have expressed their concerns at the ballot box and through political organizations but nothing has changed. In fact, the incarceration rate has increased as crime has decreased. Why should we expect African-Americans to patiently wait for the legislative process to produce results? It has never been responsive to their concerns.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Oh yeah: come on cinyc, common sense. Rioting is always going to get more coverage than clapping your hands and singing. That's not to say that white reaction isn't a concern. We all know the history of the late 60s leading to Mr. "law and order" Nixon.

Rioting gets more negative coverage, perpetuating negative stereotypes about young African-American males.  Clapping your hands and singing last week got plenty of coverage to anyone who was paying attention to the news last week.

Why is the white reaction a "concern", exactly?

I'd argue that there's a pretty stark distinction between stories that are covered by the media and stories that generate active and sustained interest in collective action, public policy issues and background information. Ferguson played a central role in public life for months. Do you honestly mean to suggest that a few thousand peaceful protesters marching in Baltimore would have aroused the senses of the public?

The New York Times, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, and the Big Four have been replete with stories that feature "police brutality" over the past few months. The stories that were the most "cut and dry" did not drive as much internet traffic as the more ambiguous cases, which featured more public protest and unrest.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I'd argue that there's a pretty stark distinction between stories that are covered by the media and stories that generate active and sustained interest in collective action, public policy issues and background information. Ferguson played a central role in public life for months. Do you honestly mean to suggest that a few thousand peaceful protesters marching in Baltimore would have aroused the senses of the public?

Again, the story was extensively covered by the media last week.  The focus then was what happened to Freddie Gray.  Now, the focus is on how a bunch of idiots burned down the local drug store and slashed the hoses of the firemen who were trying to put the fire out.  How does that help, exactly?  Someone dies in police custody, an investigation is currently underway, and people are rioting before the investigation is even complete.

I'm done responding to any of your posts. On the whole, I don't think this discussion has been very productive and you haven't really responded to any of my points. We'll see where this story goes over the next week or two. I can't say that I'm optimistic about this situation.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Jesus, my fellow red avatars just can't bring themselves to condemn the rioting without pouching it in some kind of excuse.

Oh, and for s sake: This situation was widely covered on news networks before the rioting, so no, rioting isn't "the only way to get attention". Just stop with the pathetic excuses for bad behavior.

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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/

Has the national media covered any of these cases? My hope is that they'll consider exploring the origins of the riot rather than engage in shrill condemnation. Frankly, the story that I've posted above justifies throwing bricks at cop cars.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/

Yes those things are terrible, and those people deserve justice. But rioting isn't going to change any of that. If anything it will backfire and people will think "no wonder police officers have to be especially on guard around those people". The current story was gaining traction and most likely have led to reforms from the city's black mayor and police chief.

I just don't see how looting a liquor store and burning a CVS after raiding it for prescription drugs will help.

Nothing will help. No one is listening. No one cares about these communities. Baltimore's public officials are powerless to act in the face of Maryland's Police Officers' Bill of Rights (I've posted a link to the implications of this). Baltimore's residents are powerless at the polls: they're a small portion of Maryland's population and have entirely different concerns than African-Americans who live in Prince George's County. At this point, I don't have any public policy prescriptions or strategies to offer. These people are powerless in the face of a system that has been rigged against them at every possible point. Baltimore has de-industrialized, the welfare state has been gutted, incarceration rates continue to increase and the police have the carte blanche authority to do as they please. When has the fabled "median voter" expressed the slightest inkling of a concern about these facts? America's once great industrial cities are as impoverished and dangerous as parts of Central America. We've known this for decades. What has been done about it? Nothing. We had the ability to stop urban blight, white flight, the carceral state and slow the pace of de-industrialization: we didn't do anything because Americans don't care.

With this in mind, I understand the unalloyed sentiment that is embodied by throwing a brick through a payday loan office or a police car.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/04/24/the-police-officers-bill-of-rights/