Scientists agree: guns make society less safe (user search)
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  Scientists agree: guns make society less safe (search mode)
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Author Topic: Scientists agree: guns make society less safe  (Read 1515 times)
bedstuy
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« on: April 26, 2015, 08:18:13 PM »

Does anyone actually disagree?  This seems like an obvious conclusion.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 12:43:41 PM »

What makes scientists qualified to comment on this? Since, you know, Ben Carson isn't qualified to discuss social policy.

Yes, this has nothing to do whatsoever with their area of expertise.

Look, I think it's obvious having a gun in your home makes it easier to commit suicide.  That being said, while the arguments about gun safety have some validity, I believe that more guns = less violent crime, and I have stats to back this up:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB841185795318576500

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Besides, the burden of proof is on those who say more guns = more crime as their goal is to stifle the right to bear arms, and thus the pro-gun control side must demonstrate overwhelming evidence that more gun ownership increases crime.  The simple fact that the liberalization of gun laws has coincided with the plummeting of violent crime rates makes that case very difficult for the anti-gunners.

That's completely ridiculous.  Let's just look at it logically. 

If someone has a gun, what is more likely?

They use it to commit a crime + they accidentally injure themselves or someone else + they commit suicide

vs.

They use it to stop a crime

It's not even close.  Right?  Privately owned guns almost never save someone's life.  They kill thousands of people every year.  The homicide rate in the US was totally out of control 30 years ago and we had too many guns.  It's out of control now too, despite the overall drop in violent crime.

Unfortunately, the biggest victims of gun violence are people that nobody cares about, black men.  Even the "black lives matter" crowd doesn't care, because they only care when a black man is killed in a way that feeds into their racial politics.  Of course suburban white kids don't have a problem with guns.  In the suburbs, guns are a fun dangerous toy.  In a few inner city neighborhoods in America, guns are a plague. 
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bedstuy
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Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 03:14:41 PM »

Taking data from two different sources with completely different methods of obtaining their data is inherently unreliable, especially when one has a bias towards undercounting and the other towards overcounting and moreover they don't compare incidents of equivalent severity.  In short, the comparison you make relies upon junk statistics of the sort only a university social sciences professor could love.
I'm curious as to why you think that the Bureau of Justice Statistics is biased towards undercounting (I'm not saying that it isn't, just wondering why you think it is).

Even if the data has some inaccuracies (as does most of this sort), do you really believe that they're extreme enough to negate the considerable gap between the two bars on the chart, or to provide credence to Bedstuy's assertion that almost no firearms are used to prevent crime?

What does that graph show?  I don't know what a DGU is.  So, it's utterly meaningless.

And, that's not what I said.  I think police deter some crime.  I think security guards and prison guards deter some crime.

But, if we're talking about situations where a private citizen with a conceal carry permit fends off an mugger with a gun, shoots someone in self-defense, shoots someone to defend a family member or innocent third party, stops a robbery by pulling out a gun, etc, that's rare.

On top of that, when people have guns, they take risks they wouldn't otherwise.  They pick fights with violent people.  They approach "suspicious" black teens in their neighborhood.  They go into an opposing gang's territory.  Because, they have that security of where they can always pull out their gun.  And, maybe there is a potential deterrence, if that person gets into a bad situation.  But, maybe they wouldn't have needed the gun, if they didn't have the puffed up ego of a gun owner.  Unfortunately, dumb, angry with guns tend to find reasons to whip them out. 
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