Kids of Republicans pull parents to the left on gay marriage

[Torie]

I know most here read Politco, so this article will not be a surprise, but I feel the need to put it up. It brought a smile to my face, although then discerning yet another example of the Pub politician courage gap (Flake is an exception), brought out an ensuing frown. On an issue like this, is it to much to ask to expect politicians to tell the truth about what they think, and face up to the Pub voters and try to persuade them, and even if it proves unsuccessful, at least they can look back on their career with pride rather than shame? Yes, I know, it is too much to ask.

I  hope every young Pub here (I know most of you support SSM) is talking to their parents and relatives and friends about this issue, when the time is right. It makes a difference!

[bedstuy]

I hope those Republican kids who see that their party is hateful and dumb on the issue of homosexuality realize something. 

Your party is hateful and dumb in general, not just on one issue.  It's hateful towards poor people, black people, immigrants, Hispanic people, young people, middle class people.  It's dumb on the environment, on economic inequality, education, healthcare, foreign policy, etc..  So, stop being a Republican, because well-intentioned moderates only enable the rapacious corporate interests and bigots who run the GOP.

[Torie]

I hope those Republican kids who see that their party is hateful and dumb on the issue of homosexuality realize something. 

Your party is hateful and dumb in general, not just on one issue.  It's hateful towards poor people, black people, immigrants, Hispanic people, young people, middle class people.  It's dumb on the environment, on economic inequality, education, healthcare, foreign policy, etc..  So, stop being a Republican, because well-intentioned moderates only enable the rapacious corporate interests and bigots who run the GOP.

Thanks for the advice, but I prefer doing things my way. It is not as if I don't give considerable thought to this matter. I disagree of course with your last perfervid sentence, but I know you sincerely believe that, and we won't be changing each other's minds.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I mean, good for people for coming around to the correct view, but this kind of thing presents a problem, best represented by the cases of Salmon and Portman. Those guys needed a family member to come out for them to change their minds and lean toward LGBT equality. Why can't they realize, then, that there are issues that are just as personal to people who don't have the benefit of being a US lawmaker? Are they incapable of reaching even one centimeter beyond their personal view?

[Torie]

I mean, good for people for coming around to the correct view, but this kind of thing presents a problem, best represented by the cases of Salmon and Portman. Those guys needed a family member to come out for them to change their minds and lean toward LGBT equality. Why can't they realize, then, that there are issues that are just as personal to people who don't have the benefit of being a US lawmaker? Are they incapable of reaching even one centimeter beyond their personal view?

Many know better, but have a courage gap. When they have to deal with a loved one, however, the pressure is greater to just "man up." That is my sense of it anyway. That is why those with a courage gap, need to be selectively targeted in either primaries or the general election, the idea being to pick those places where a Pub politician doing the right thing is in a district where the data shows it will not be political suicide to do so. For example, there is no excuse in my CD, NY-19, for a Pub to not be pro SSM. It would not be political suicide. It might make a primary tougher, but it is not ipso facto a political game ender. If it is a CD in south Georgia, or somewhere else in the bible belt, that is another matter. It would be an exercise in futility. Another place for target practice, yes it is Muon2, is in the collar counties of Chicago, and almost everywhere except maybe Kern County, in CA. Ditto all those CD's in suburban Philly, that are so marginal anyway. Come to think of it, it is a rather target rich environment. We need to hit up Bloomberg for some serious cash.

[King]

The most conservative people I know on gay marriage are children of Republican parents, so my anecdotal evidence swings the other way

[AggregateDemand]

SSM is the great human catastrophe of our lifetime. The elephant of inequality is sitting in the middle of the room, but people are too self-hating, uneducated, and apathetic to see it.

Half of the country has conferred upon itself a title of nobility, and subsequently helped themselves to whatever they please. Allowing gays to exercise the same right is not a solution to anything.

We are merely keeping with our long-standing American tradition of expanding the problem.

[Torie]

The most conservative people I know on gay marriage are children of Republican parents, so my anecdotal evidence swings the other way

The young Pub percentage in favor of SSM is most likely inflated here, but the change my friend is blowing in the wind, at almost hurricane force velocity, and the Pub politicians are very well aware of it. That is why they are praying SCOTUS just makes it all go away this June. But if SCOTUS does not, it's time to ratchet up the pressure.

[Torie]

SSM is the great human catastrophe of our lifetime. The elephant of inequality is sitting in the middle of the room, but people are too self-hating, uneducated, and apathetic to see it.

Half of the country has conferred upon itself a title of nobility, and subsequently helped themselves to whatever they please. Allowing gays to exercise the same right is not a solution to anything.

We are merely keeping with our long-standing American tradition of expanding the problem.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I find your post near totally incoherent. Sorry about that.

[King]

The most conservative people I know on gay marriage are children of Republican parents, so my anecdotal evidence swings the other way

The young Pub percentage in favor of SSM is most likely inflated here, but the change my friend is blowing in the wind, at almost hurricane force velocity, and the Pub politicians are very well aware of it. That is why they are praying SCOTUS just makes it all go away this June. But if SCOTUS does not, it's time to ratchet up the pressure.

61% is probably right. The important thing we always need to remember about percentages is that even 10% opposed is hundreds of thousands to millions of very loud, annoying people.

[Torie]

The most conservative people I know on gay marriage are children of Republican parents, so my anecdotal evidence swings the other way

The young Pub percentage in favor of SSM is most likely inflated here, but the change my friend is blowing in the wind, at almost hurricane force velocity, and the Pub politicians are very well aware of it. That is why they are praying SCOTUS just makes it all go away this June. But if SCOTUS does not, it's time to ratchet up the pressure.

61% is probably right. The important thing we always need to remember about percentages is that even 10% opposed is hundreds of thousands to millions of very loud, annoying people.

A very few of which are right here on this Forum!

[CountryClassSF]

So, Mr. Salmon is lying to voters about his position on marriage. That's how I took this.

This is the way the establishment GOP treats us. Make no mistake, no one wants SSM imposed on America more than the GOP.

"Evolved" "privately" - so he tells voters one thing, tells his son the other.

Congress should serve the people, not just their family. My parents support SSM, and I don't.  I wouldn't expect them to form their opinions on it based on my views.

[CountryClassSF]

SSM is the great human catastrophe of our lifetime. The elephant of inequality is sitting in the middle of the room, but people are too self-hating, uneducated, and apathetic to see it.

Half of the country has conferred upon itself a title of nobility, and subsequently helped themselves to whatever they please. Allowing gays to exercise the same right is not a solution to anything.

We are merely keeping with our long-standing American tradition of expanding the problem.

I do not like SSM but I don't think I would be comfortable taking it away from people once it's granted.

[CountryClassSF]

Torie, Congressman Gibson got elected in your district before he supported SSM.  I'm not saying your district is anti-SSM, but maybe it's not the #1 issue for people on either side - most people vote on jobs. And by the way, I am a big fan of his -- he's an American patriot and an overall wonderful man.

Now, please do what you can to make sure that carpetbagger Democrat who ran last time move back to NYC ... hopefully retain the seat next cycle

[AggregateDemand]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I find your post near totally incoherent. Sorry about that.

Look at something objective and meaningful, rather than feeding yourself a steady diet of political op-eds and vapid talking points. You'll figure it out soon enough.

[CountryClassSF]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Unfortunately people aren't going to change their minds on this.  I just wish more supporters of SSM would understand the vast majority of opposition isn't based on hatred. And I wish more Log Cabin Republicans would stand up for people like Baronelle Stutzman and Sweet Cakes by Melissa.

We can disagree on the definition of marriage but still stand up for religious freedom.  That's what I wish moderates and conservatives can come together on. But unfortunately many are fully aligned with the left.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I find your post near totally incoherent. Sorry about that.

Look at something objective and meaningful, rather than feeding yourself a steady diet of political op-eds and vapid talking points. You'll figure it out soon enough.

What is the root cause of being a dope, I wonder? Being well-read or not has nothing to do with it... and even if it did, there'd be no concern on that front with Torie. I don't know if I could say the same for you, sadly.

It's just so interesting!

[AggregateDemand]

What is the root cause of being a dope, I wonder? Being well-read or not has nothing to do with it... and even if it did, there'd be no concern on that front with Torie. I don't know if I could say the same for you, sadly.

It's just so interesting!

A government requires certain duties of its citizens and recognizes certain inalienable rights, as well as granting some positive rights.

Anyone who doesn't know of the cantankerous, pointless, and unethical system of discrimination and privilege surrounding relationship contracts and filing statuses has yet to achieve the most modest education.

[Mechaman]

For the love of Jesus Christ, his mother Mary, and the earthly father Joseph just admit you don't like gays Aggregate Demand!  Nobody is buying this verbose bullshit of yours that you simply don't like the expansion of government power, "it's all a conspiracy against singles" blah blah blah blah arguments.  It is obvious to anyone over a fifth grade reading level and an IQ above room temperature that you just don't like gay marriage and are coming up with every half baked argument in the book to argue why it's not a good thing while trying to sound as non-bigoted as possible.

[SteveRogers]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I find your post near totally incoherent. Sorry about that.

You see, he's arguing that the real victims of discrimination in America are straight, single males. And he has nothing against gay people, but if we let gay people get married, then that will just enlarge the ruling married class, thus granting them more power to discriminate against single people. Obviously.

[CountryClassSF]

For the love of Jesus Christ, his mother Mary, and the earthly father Joseph just admit you don't like gays Aggregate Demand!  Nobody is buying this verbose bullshit of yours that you simply don't like the expansion of government power, "it's all a conspiracy against singles" blah blah blah blah arguments.  It is obvious to anyone over a fifth grade reading level and an IQ above room temperature that you just don't like gay marriage and are coming up with every half baked argument in the book to argue why it's not a good thing while trying to sound as non-bigoted as possible.

Do you really believe it's not possible to not believe a same-sex relationship is a marriage and not harbor any ill will towards gay people?

[AggregateDemand]

For the love of Jesus Christ, his mother Mary, and the earthly father Joseph just admit you don't like gays Aggregate Demand!  Nobody is buying this verbose bullshit of yours that you simply don't like the expansion of government power, "it's all a conspiracy against singles" blah blah blah blah arguments.  It is obvious to anyone over a fifth grade reading level and an IQ above room temperature that you just don't like gay marriage and are coming up with every half baked argument in the book to argue why it's not a good thing while trying to sound as non-bigoted as possible.

I pity people who have enough time to hate on someone else for making personal decisions that harm no one.

On the other hand, I have plenty of time and energy to hate the imbeciles who think that our current system only discriminates against single people who are also gay. The assertion is so brain-dead it could only be derived from political discourse.

People wonder why politicians treat them with disdain. Look at the lunacy you're willing to believe. As far as they are concerned, we're all just livestock.

[Torie]

For the love of Jesus Christ, his mother Mary, and the earthly father Joseph just admit you don't like gays Aggregate Demand!  Nobody is buying this verbose bullshit of yours that you simply don't like the expansion of government power, "it's all a conspiracy against singles" blah blah blah blah arguments.  It is obvious to anyone over a fifth grade reading level and an IQ above room temperature that you just don't like gay marriage and are coming up with every half baked argument in the book to argue why it's not a good thing while trying to sound as non-bigoted as possible.

I pity people who have enough time to hate on someone else for making personal decisions that harm no one.

On the other hand, I have plenty of time and energy to hate the imbeciles who think that our current system only discriminates against single people who are also gay. The assertion is so brain-dead it could only be derived from political discourse.

People wonder why politicians treat them with disdain. Look at the lunacy you're willing to believe. As far as they are concerned, we're all just livestock.

Who pray tell has ever posted the bolded bit, or any facsimile thereof? Anyway, I stipulate that certain other segments of the population face more real discrimination in real life than single gay men, and that is irrespective of what the law says. The law can only do so much as a practical, and prudential, matter.

[CountryClassSF]

If there's a "constitutional right" to marry anyone you want though, that's a slippery slope.  That is why I cannot understand why people can't support SSM without believing its a constitutionally guaranteed protection.

[Torie]

If there's a "constitutional right" to marry anyone you want though, that's a slippery slope.  That is why I cannot understand why people can't support SSM without believing its a constitutionally guaranteed protection.

That's a different point. Indeed, many people support SSM without necessarily believing it is a Constitutional right. I wrestle with that issue myself, and at this point, focus on the right to travel issue. It is rather heavy lifting to find that the meaning of  the Constitution has evolved based on societal evolution on this particular issue, but the right to travel is rather well settled precedent now, although obviously not previously applied to this issue, but then the issue has only arisen as some states have legalized SSM, some having indeed done it by statute rather than judicial fiat to boot. There is something almost uniquely cruel and unusual about having one's marriage effectively dissolved when one changes one's residence to another state.