Kids of Republicans pull parents to the left on gay marriage

[CountryClassSF]

The Gestapo was a repressive secret police that tortured and killed people. You don't get to say that people who disagree with you are like the goddamn Gestapo.

no one said they were doing that. The tactics they employ such as shutting down opposing views is a tactic the gestapo used, as is trying to get businesses to shut down.

[Slander and/or Libel]

You know exactly what you're doing by invoking the Gestapo and it's disgusting.

[CountryClassSF]

The article's author used the term. I said the first time I heard of it was in a book by lesbian Tammy Bruce.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I don't care. You know what the Gestapo was and you know exactly how the gay rights movement is not the Gestapo. I don't care if somebody else used it before. You're a coward if you're trying to hide behind that.

[AggregateDemand]

I don't care. You know what the Gestapo was and you know exactly how the gay rights movement is not the Gestapo. I don't care if somebody else used it before. You're a coward if you're trying to hide behind that.

Certain sects of the movement are hellbent on legalized enslavement for wedding cakes and other trivialities. Is that a beneficial manifestation of fascism?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I don't care. You know what the Gestapo was and you know exactly how the gay rights movement is not the Gestapo. I don't care if somebody else used it before. You're a coward if you're trying to hide behind that.

Certain sects of the movement are hellbent on legalized enslavement for wedding cakes and other trivialities. Is that a beneficial manifestation of fascism?

Dude, just admit you think the gays are yucky and that's what this comes down to.

[CountryClassSF]

I don't care. You know what the Gestapo was and you know exactly how the gay rights movement is not the Gestapo. I don't care if somebody else used it before. You're a coward if you're trying to hide behind that.

You seem to want a lot of words banned.

[AggregateDemand]

Dude, just admit you think the gays are yucky and that's what this comes down to.

Dude, acquire an understanding of the nuanced arguments. I'm not going to support an expansion of specific performance for trivial bullsh**t like wedding cakes and flowers.

You can't blame the fascism of the radicalized LGBT community on the detractors of fascism. If the market is willing to supply a product, but you play the discrimination card to enslave someone you don't like, you're an HP is the truest sense of the word. The judge who allowed the remedy of specific performance is also an HP.

If you can't understand the situation, don't suffocate intelligent discourse with your undeveloped moralistic opinion.

[CountryClassSF]

Dude, just admit you think the gays are yucky and that's what this comes down to.

Dude, acquire an understanding of the nuanced arguments. I'm not going to support an expansion of specific performance for trivial bullsh**t like wedding cakes and flowers.

You can't blame the fascism of the radicalized LGBT community on the detractors of fascism. If the market is willing to supply a product, but you play the discrimination card to enslave someone you don't like, you're an HP is the truest sense of the word. The judge who allowed the remedy of specific performance is also an HP.

If you can't understand the situation, don't suffocate intelligent discourse with your undeveloped moralistic opinion.

Exactly right. "Homophobe!" "discrimination!" is designed to shut down all debate and only allow the views of the gay juggernaut to be heard and accepted.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I don't care. You know what the Gestapo was and you know exactly how the gay rights movement is not the Gestapo. I don't care if somebody else used it before. You're a coward if you're trying to hide behind that.

You seem to want a lot of words banned.

Nobody said anything about banning it. You can think it's inappropriate to bring something up in a certain context without wanting mention of it banned. That should be obvious.

don't suffocate intelligent discourse with your undeveloped moralistic opinion.

?!

You're the one accusing people who are pursuing legal avenues with which you disagree of being fascists and enslaving people. A world where that constitutes 'nuance' may be in some respects more dramatic and romantic and captivating than the alternative, but it's not the world most people live in.

I also find it disturbing when people use 'moralistic' as an insult in contexts like this, as if, uh, wanting things done or not done based on what's right or wrong is this horrible affront to common sense and decency.

[CountryClassSF]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

[Thunderbird is the word]

SSM is the great human catastrophe of our lifetime. The elephant of inequality is sitting in the middle of the room, but people are too self-hating, uneducated, and apathetic to see it.

Half of the country has conferred upon itself a title of nobility, and subsequently helped themselves to whatever they please. Allowing gays to exercise the same right is not a solution to anything.

We are merely keeping with our long-standing American tradition of expanding the problem.

So then what are you suggesting, that all marriage be abolished?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

CountryClassSF, I'm involved in Christian theological circles and interact with people far more conservative on this issue than I am, with whom I feel in some ways more comfortable than I do in LGBT spaces. I don't think it's an unforgivable sin to oppose same-sex marriage and I certainly don't think people who oppose it are 'trash'. It just gets frustrating when people like you or AggregateDemand come along and, for one reason or another, start making a hue and cry about 'juggernauts' or 'fascism' or people being 'enslaved'. It's difficult to know how to constructively respond to that sort of rhetoric, because it's not constructive rhetoric in the first place.

[Torie]

There have been a lot of infractable personal attacks on this thread. Attacking someone as an idiot or unread, or unable to understand text, etc. for holding a personal opinion is a personal attack. I have not reported any of the posts, and don't intend to, but the style of some of the posts really is not acceptable in my opinion. It's pathetic really. I do thank those of you who have shown more personal restraint. Yes, I am not entirely sure that some of it is not trolling. It's just that over the top. The whole thing sucks. Thank you.

[Torie]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

CountryClassSF, I'm involved in Christian theological circles and interact with people far more conservative on this issue than I am, with whom I feel in some ways more comfortable than I do in LGBT spaces. I don't think it's an unforgivable sin to oppose same-sex marriage and I certainly don't think people who oppose it are 'trash'. It just gets frustrating when people like you or AggregateDemand come along and, for one reason or another, start making a hue and cry about 'juggernauts' or 'fascism' or people being 'enslaved'. It's difficult [impossible] to know how to constructively respond to that sort of rhetoric, because it's not constructive rhetoric in the first place.

Fixed.

[AggregateDemand]

You're the one accusing people who are pursuing legal avenues with which you disagree of being fascists and enslaving people. A world where that constitutes 'nuance' may be in some respects more dramatic and romantic and captivating than the alternative, but it's not the world most people live in.

I also find it disturbing when people use 'moralistic' as an insult in contexts like this, as if, uh, wanting things done or not done based on what's right or wrong is this horrible affront to common sense and decency.

Categorizing specific performance as enslavement is not my opinion, it's just not the politically correct terminology for compelling someone to perform. People in commerce are well aware of what specific performance actually is, and that's part of the reason why so few people sue for specific performance. Regarding SSM, the parties don't even have pre-existing contracts.

The market is perfectly willing to provide for gay customers. The purpose of the lawsuits was to demonstrate that certain minorities can wield power and exert control over other citizens. I find that even more disgusting than the awkward discrimination of religious fundamentalists. 

If you like "moralistic" politics, why do you have a problem with Christian sexual ethics? We live in an age of reason. PC groupthink and religious treachery are equally bad.

[AggregateDemand]

There have been a lot of infractable personal attacks on this thread. Attacking someone as an idiot or unread, or unable to understand text, etc. for holding a personal opinion is a personal attack. I have not reported any of the posts, and don't intend to, but the style of some of the posts really is not acceptable in my opinion. It's pathetic really. I do thank those of you who have shown more personal restraint. Yes, I am not entirely sure that some of it is not trolling. It's just that over the top. The whole thing sucks. Thank you.

Tell us when you plan to crack down on the incessant, baseless claims of bigotry. If ever there was a sign of misunderstanding and lack of proper education, crying "bigotry" is one of the clearest indicators.

[bedstuy]

AD, people are exasperated with you because you're totally incoherent.  There may be an idea in your head, but you are not expressing it in a way that other people can understand it.  The burden is on you to make yourself understood.  If you just write in a totally abstruse way and get angry and dismissive when people don't understand you, there's no point.  You think you have some magical insight because you took Econ 101 at community college or something, great.  

People understand arguments that go A to B to C.  If you write like some crazy person on speed and you jump from A to F to Q, you're not some brilliant writer.  You're a crazy person on speed type of writer.

[Ebsy]

AD, people are exasperated with you because you're totally incoherent.  There may be an idea in your head, but you are not expressing it in a way that other people can understand it.  The burden is on you to make yourself understood.  If you just write in a totally abstruse way and get angry and dismissive when people don't understand you, there's no point.  You think you have some magical insight because you took Econ 101 at community college or something, great. 

lmao

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If you like "moralistic" politics, why do you have a problem with Christian sexual ethics? We live in an age of reason. PC groupthink and religious treachery are equally bad.

I'm really not sure what to make of this paragraph. Every part of it makes sense but taken together it's extremely difficult to know what sort of response is called for. I will say for one thing that I've never been accused of 'having a problem with Christian sexual ethics' before, so it's sort of new and exciting to be accused of it now. It also doesn't follow that 'living in an age of reason' somehow means that policy should be enacted without any reference to questions of the way things ought to be. In fact, it's such a confusing non sequitur that I have to keep rereading your post to force myself to believe you actually said it.

Not responding to the first two paragraphs because, while I guess I could see myself conceding that they're not technically WRONG, they indicate a misconception of what life is like for gay people in many parts of the country of which I don't really feel equipped to disabuse you.

[CountryClassSF]

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I am encouraged by your post to me. I understand your frustration, and I appreciate you. I certainly don't mean to characterize all SSM supporters this way.  I certainly didn't use the word enslaved or anything like that.  

The problem is that within gay circles, I have been treated very horribly for having this view.  We feel that the fascistic aspect isn't the pro-SSM view, it's the "pressure" felt to conform.  

I often compare this to what I did in my high school GSA, which was try to foster an environment of respecting differences and allowing people to express their differences without being ostracized or condemned.

Perhaps my mistake is sometimes allowing my anger on this issue to construe that I am not interested in dialogue  - and I can learn from that too.  

What I will say, though, is that my views are shaped by my experiences as a conservative gay person.

I've been labeled by many as "not really gay" for holding this view (offensive). As "Self-hating" for holding this view (offensive).  It's trying to intimidate people into backing down. 

[Murica!]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

Well at least you support polygamy, Citizen Fascist.

[CountryClassSF]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

Well at least you support polygamy, Citizen Fascist.

I support traditional marriage

[Murica!]

The facts are that opponents of traditional marriage are heralded by Hollywood, press, and social circles. The rest of us are basically trash as far as you're concerned. That doesn't sound like a democracy. It sounds like a juggernaut.

Well at least you support polygamy, Citizen Fascist.

I support traditional marriage

You are aware that the most numerous form of marriage in the Bible is polygamy right?

[CountryClassSF]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I do not support legal recognition of polygamy.