Childcare Reform Act (Debating)
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  Childcare Reform Act (Debating)
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Author Topic: Childcare Reform Act (Debating)  (Read 4754 times)
bore
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« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2015, 02:56:44 PM »

OK, does anyone here want to propose an amendment?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2015, 02:22:08 AM »

Damn thirteen days and no response to my post, or anything in general for that matter. Tongue
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bore
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« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2015, 08:13:48 AM »

It would very much depend on what those conditions were. If they were just to do with quality then we'd have a university tuition fee hyperinflation situation pretty quickly. If they included cost as well that's slightly different, but again we'd have to be very careful, lest we get a situation where, as often happens with price controls, it just becomes uneconomic to supply any childcare.

My favoured solution is something similar to schools where the government guarantees childcare (although actually, now I think about it, this should probably be qualified so that childcare is not expected to be delivered to people living in an incredibly remote village or farm) but not specific ones. So people would be allowed to claim the discount for at least one, and maybe more childcare centres.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2015, 11:48:58 PM »

It would very much depend on what those conditions were. If they were just to do with quality then we'd have a university tuition fee hyperinflation situation pretty quickly. If they included cost as well that's slightly different, but again we'd have to be very careful, lest we get a situation where, as often happens with price controls, it just becomes uneconomic to supply any childcare.

My favoured solution is something similar to schools where the government guarantees childcare (although actually, now I think about it, this should probably be qualified so that childcare is not expected to be delivered to people living in an incredibly remote village or farm) but not specific ones. So people would be allowed to claim the discount for at least one, and maybe more childcare centres.



Oh dear, the rural wars are spreading. Tongue
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2015, 09:46:56 AM »

So where exactly are we at with this?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2015, 10:16:31 PM »

We seem to be going in circles over the question of how best to ensure the application of childcare subsidies so as to answer a range of concerns.

1. Distance
2. Current Cost
3. After-effects
                a. Quality of Childcare
                b. minimizing potential cost inflation.

The best balance of these is what we need to find.
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bore
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« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2015, 03:29:11 PM »

Yeah, yankee has summarised what exactly we need to deal with here. I'll try and come up with some sort of more fleshed out amendment over the weekend, but if anyone has any ideas/proposals I'd be very interested in seeing them.
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TNF
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« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2015, 03:30:16 PM »

Again, what is the point of subsidizing these industries? Why not just nationalize them and run them ourselves?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2015, 01:21:58 AM »

Capitalistic-nationalist propagandizing? Wink Tongue Hitler Youth! Tongue


Seriously though, the big reason would be cost and allocation of resources and I don't think the gov't could provide quality service on the scale necessary to provide for what the private market can.


There is good quality childcare out there and though there are some that lack access we need to find a balancing act that minizes the diminution of quality while maximizing access. If a private market with a subsizies for the poor is the best route to take, then I think it would be preferable to take such then to nationalize it as a simple dogmatic answer to a complex problem.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2015, 02:16:50 AM »

I see this has died once again.

On the question of distance, what would be an acceptable distance? Would a facility that in rural areas differ from that of the city on the account of transportation access and such forth?
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Blair
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« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2015, 01:38:16 PM »

I still think the best option is to give an amount of how many hours of free childcare each family gets per week, and act under what's called 'a pupil prenimum' which we have in the UK where the govt give funding per student.

I mean I'm only against giving it on the basis of wealth, because there's going to be a cut off point where a single  mother on 20,001 is not going to get any free childcare, whilst a couple both earning 19,000 get it. I know that's not what the bill says but it's a common problem when you have these caps in regards to education
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2015, 10:34:06 PM »

Alright... what do people want to do about this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #87 on: July 06, 2015, 11:08:41 PM »

I still think the best option is to give an amount of how many hours of free childcare each family gets per week, and act under what's called 'a pupil prenimum' which we have in the UK where the govt give funding per student.

I mean I'm only against giving it on the basis of wealth, because there's going to be a cut off point where a single  mother on 20,001 is not going to get any free childcare, whilst a couple both earning 19,000 get it. I know that's not what the bill says but it's a common problem when you have these caps in regards to education

Shua used to be a big critic of what he called "benefit cliffs" or something like that where you go a dollar over and you are screwed. He used to prefer to use sliding scales and that was how we approached the health care law last Spring to minimize the impact of these cliffs on people.

I don't know if such would work here, but it is a possibility.

Also, you could set a high overall cap and to make sure you are covering most all of the poor and middle class, but not Bill Gates and the like of course.
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bore
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« Reply #88 on: July 07, 2015, 02:12:03 PM »

The problem with super gradated means testing, or super gradiated anything, is very soon it becomes more expensive in terms of bureaucracy than it would be just to universalise it.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #89 on: July 07, 2015, 05:42:27 PM »

The problem with super gradated means testing, or super gradiated anything, is very soon it becomes more expensive in terms of bureaucracy than it would be just to universalise it.

     The benefit of the sliding scale is that it would make the gradation continuous, so deciding the proper amount would be a matter of a simple calculation that could be done in Excel. It would hardly require tons of bureaucracy to handle that.
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Blair
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« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2015, 12:49:18 PM »

I want to try and clear up the Senate, this bill has been debated for a very long time, and if it can't move forward with any proposals I think this bill may have to be tabled 
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bore
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« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2015, 06:11:44 PM »

The problem with super gradated means testing, or super gradiated anything, is very soon it becomes more expensive in terms of bureaucracy than it would be just to universalise it.

     The benefit of the sliding scale is that it would make the gradation continuous, so deciding the proper amount would be a matter of a simple calculation that could be done in Excel. It would hardly require tons of bureaucracy to handle that.

It's easy enough to do for a few people, yes, but when you deal with a population the size of atlasia then I think you would run into bureacracy costs. For instance you'll need people to submit all their incomes and people to input that and run the database and so on.
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« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2015, 07:26:34 PM »

The problem with super gradated means testing, or super gradiated anything, is very soon it becomes more expensive in terms of bureaucracy than it would be just to universalise it.

     The benefit of the sliding scale is that it would make the gradation continuous, so deciding the proper amount would be a matter of a simple calculation that could be done in Excel. It would hardly require tons of bureaucracy to handle that.

It's easy enough to do for a few people, yes, but when you deal with a population the size of atlasia then I think you would run into bureacracy costs. For instance you'll need people to submit all their incomes and people to input that and run the database and so on.

     We have people's tax returns as far as that goes. We could probably set something up to just pull the information from their returns and issue them appropriate documentation. Make certain assumptions about those who do not file returns. I am not too knowledgeable about tax law, but the rich don't just cheat the system by not filing a return, so I think that would work.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #93 on: July 09, 2015, 08:06:19 AM »

I am sure we already have the same information being collected by existing agencies for other programs even on top of the tax collections and such so there should be some way to efficiently acquire this information without have the need for too much more in the way of bureaucratic largess.

Healthcare and the Social Security system under the CSS Act, would be likely places where this is occuring.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
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« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2015, 02:56:47 PM »

I want to try and clear up the Senate, this bill has been debated for a very long time, and if it can't move forward with any proposals I think this bill may have to be tabled 

Since it's the President's bill, I'd certainly give it one more try before tabling, but we should move forward one way or the other. It's been debated since April.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2015, 07:19:16 AM »

Anybody? Tongue
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TNF
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« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2015, 10:38:04 PM »

I motion that the Senate halt debate on all non-pressing matters and deal instead with the pressing issue at hand - the dissolution of Atlasia.
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Lumine
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« Reply #97 on: July 21, 2015, 12:11:41 AM »

Motion to table.

There seems to be a sincere lack of interest in debating and moving forward with this and I think constitutional reform issues (and dealing with the outcome of the communist revolt) should be the main focus of the Senate as we speak, not to mention the slots are limited.
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Blair
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« Reply #98 on: July 21, 2015, 01:31:53 AM »

I second the motion, this bill has been on the floor for too long to expect anything now
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #99 on: July 21, 2015, 01:36:42 AM »

Its unfortunate, but unavoidable.

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