Which Country is more Free?

[Free Bird]

I've been thinking this to myself for a while. America is becoming more and more of a police state by the day, but Canada regulates a lot of things arbitrarily.

[Sumner 1868]

Both are emerging as police states, thanks to George and Stephen.

[Hnv1]

Impossible to calculate freedom, neither is anywhere near a police state and Libertarians need to grow up.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I would say Canada has more positive freedom (although I find those positive vs negative Liberty discussions rather PolSci and tedious). Your neighbours to the north are reigned over by a foreign head of state, which is pretty weird.

[Hatman 🍁]

Canadians are more free where it counts.

[136or142]

I don't know what you are referring to when you say that we Canadians 'regulate things arbitrarily.'

The Canadian Supreme Court had ruled a number of years ago on a marijuana case that Parliament had the power to ban it even without proving any negative effects of marijuana simply because Parliament had the authority to ban essentially anything it liked (as long as it was not specifically prevented from doing so by the Constitution.)

Since then though, the court, presumably with a number of new justices, has struck down restrictions on gay marriage, assisted suicide and prostitution, to name the three high profile cases. On gay marriage, it used the 'equal protection clause' (or whatever it's called in Canada), even though gays were not included on the list in the Constitution of 'protected groups.'  The court essentially said that 'gays are similar to the groups mentioned so we 'read in' to the constitution that they are also included in the list.

I would not be surprised if a new charter challenge was launched on Parliament's authority to ban marijuana while showing only a weak case of actual harm (except for those under 18-21-25), the court could very well overturn their previous ruling, or at the very least, the court ruling would be far from unanimous.

Of course, Parliament's ability to ban corporate activity arbitrarily has already been struck down due to free trade rules, at least with the countries Canada has agreements with.

This, of course, though not referring to Canada was what Peter Garrett and Midnight Oil meant that corporations had "more rights than people."

However, in case you see an obvious loophole in the marijuana law, I believe that the Court has also ruled that corporations can't challenge those laws because they existed prior to the free trade agreements.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The main difference between the US and Canada when it comes to freedom is that the US is considerably more snow free. Snow is nice once in a rare while but I'm glad I don't have to put up with it every winter.

[136or142]

British Columbia gets very little snow.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

British Columbia gets very little snow.

As was noticed during the Vancouver Winter Olympics.

[Hatman 🍁]

British Columbia gets very little snow.

Correction: The part of BC where most people live gets very little snow.

I don't know what you are referring to when you say that we Canadians 'regulate things arbitrarily.'

The Canadian Supreme Court had ruled a number of years ago on a marijuana case that Parliament had the power to ban it even without proving any negative effects of marijuana simply because Parliament had the authority to ban essentially anything it liked (as long as it was not specifically prevented from doing so by the Constitution.)

Since then though, the court, presumably with a number of new justices, has struck down restrictions on gay marriage, assisted suicide and prostitution, to name the three high profile cases. On gay marriage, it used the 'equal protection clause' (or whatever it's called in Canada), even though gays were not included on the list in the Constitution of 'protected groups.'  The court essentially said that 'gays are similar to the groups mentioned so we 'read in' to the constitution that they are also included in the list.

I would not be surprised if a new charter challenge was launched on Parliament's authority to ban marijuana while showing only a weak case of actual harm (except for those under 18-21-25), the court could very well overturn their previous ruling, or at the very least, the court ruling would be far from unanimous.

Of course, Parliament's ability to ban corporate activity arbitrarily has already been struck down due to free trade rules, at least with the countries Canada has agreements with.

This, of course, though not referring to Canada was what Peter Garrett and Midnight Oil meant that corporations had "more rights than people."

However, in case you see an obvious loophole in the marijuana law, I believe that the Court has also ruled that corporations can't challenge those laws because they existed prior to the free trade agreements.

The McLachlin court has had quite the libertarian bent to it. Generally, this has been good (but not always, of course).

[136or142]

British Columbia gets very little snow.

Correction: The part of BC where most people live gets very little snow.

Very good point.  Thanks for the correction. That said, though the Okanagan probably gets a fair bit of snow, they also have many months of sun.

Also, the amount of rain the Lower Mainland gets is overstated.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I think that Canada is more socially free and the US is more economically free.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The Bill of Rights allows someone in the US to make a legal appeal to basic freedoms in a way that does not exist in Canada.  But in practice it is often a different story.

[Јas]

		USA	Canada
Freedom House	Political Rights (Score)	1 (Free)	1 (Free)	Tie
Freedom House	Civil Liberties (Score)	1 (Free)	1 (Free)	Tie
Freedom House	Freedom of the Press (Rank)	=30th	26th	+1 CAN
Reporters Without Borders	Press Freedom Index (Rank)	46th	18th	+1 CAN
EIU	Democracy Index (Rank)	19th	7th	+1 CAN
Transparency Int'l	Corruption Perceptions Index (Rank)	17th	10th	+1 CAN
World Justice Project	Rule of Law Index (Rank)	19th	11th	+1 CAN
Fund for Peace	Fragile States Index (Rank)	159th	168th	+1 CAN
OECD	Gov't Transparency Index (Rank)	13th	4th	+1 CAN
Heritage Foundation	Index of Economic Freedom (Rank)	12th	6th	+1 CAN
World Bank	Ease of Doing Business Index (Rank)	7th	16th	+1 USA
Property Rights Alliance	Intl Property Rights Index (Rank)	17th	9th	+1 CAN

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The US has a better constitution, but Canada is more free in practice.

[Franzl]

Depends on your concept of freedom. Canada on the things I (and most people in the world) care about.

[TDAS04]

Canada, unless freedom is only about guns and pro-rich economic policies.

[Indy Texas]

We all know America loves to take Muh Free Speech to absurd lengths, including letting people flood political campaigns with billions of dollars in spending on advertisements of questionable veracity (Swift Boat in 2004, Gingrich/Adelson's hit job on Mitt Romney in 2012).

Did Canada inherit Britain's conversely extreme libel laws?

[Boston Bread]

Canada, unless freedom is only about guns and pro-rich economic policies.

Even right-wing economic freedom indicators tend to show Canada as being more free, as Jas pointed out. I guess it's due to our regulations and tax code being simpler, or something along those lines. I don't see any reason to vote USA, even from a Randian perspective. Guns would the big exception I suppose.

[© tweed]

incarceration rate is about 5x-6x higher in the USA.

[TDAS04]

Canada, unless freedom is only about guns and pro-rich economic policies.

Even right-wing economic freedom indicators tend to show Canada as being more free, as Jas pointed out. I guess it's due to our regulations and tax code being simpler, or something along those lines. I don't see any reason to vote USA, even from a Randian perspective. Guns would the big exception I suppose.

Yeah, that's why I said "pro-rich" rather than "unregulated" or "laissez-faire" policies.  Economic conservatives don't mind government economic involvement as long as it rigs things for the rich.  Obviously Canada has more individual freedom. 

[Sopranos Republican]

I prefer our policy on guns and free speech, while I prefer Canada on the drinking age, healthcare, and abortion.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I think that Canada is more socially free and the US is more economically free.

So, which country is more socially conservative tho??