70th Anniversary of Germany's surrender in WWII.
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  70th Anniversary of Germany's surrender in WWII.
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Author Topic: 70th Anniversary of Germany's surrender in WWII.  (Read 3386 times)
GMantis
Dessie Potter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 04:54:08 PM »

Claiming that the Soviets were the main contributors to the defeat of Germany is not Soviet nationalism, it is the simple historical truth. Neither is honoring the country that suffered 27 million casualties nationalism.
And you obviously do care, since you took the effort to reply to my post. And with a rather ridiculous personal attack at that. Is the idea of giving some credit to the USSR or Russia so repugnant to you?

Well as somebody born a few hundred kilometers west of the countries USSR liberated, I'm forever grateful that it wasn't "the Main Contributors to the Victory" who liberated us.
Hope you're also forever grateful for them making any liberation possible by destroying enough German forces to allow a Western Allies invasion possible in the first place.
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ag
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« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 04:55:15 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2015, 05:13:10 PM by ag »

BTW, the modern Ukrainian version of this song. Performed at the front. By and for the grandchildren of those who fought 70 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0084EqyLFo

Disclaimer: there is a lot in this version I do not at all like. But, as they say in Russian, you cannot drop a word from a song.
I find it somewhat hilarious (though certainly not surprising) that Ukrainian nationalists would resort to stealing the melody of one of the most famous Soviet songs to make a war song on their own .

Oh, you have never heard of Orest Lyuty, I guess Smiley It is a big project, Lahidna ukrainizacija.

Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxjVB3Wq184

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o13TLYEheDw

Hope your Ukrainian is good enough Smiley As is you Russian Smiley
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ag
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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 05:02:17 PM »

(for a sufficiently close analogue).


I find your analogies not very persuasive. The closest they come is when they sing of those in "mordovskykh taborakh" (do you need a translation?).
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ag
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 05:03:16 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2015, 05:05:04 PM by ag »


It would take some very severe distortions of the word "sides" to claim that Bulgaria and the USSR were on the same side between March and June 1941. Bulgaria at this point was a satellite to Germany

And so was the Soviet Union.

"Cold peace", for crying out loud! Stalin was enamored with Hitler. He was completely subservient, insisting on continuing strategic supplies till the very morning of June 22nd.
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ag
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 05:06:02 PM »


I suppose that this was metaphorical, because it's not supported by your article?

Not at all metaphorical. The old guy gave interviews left and right back then. And he made it very clear whom he blamed.
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ag
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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 05:09:24 PM »


If you had limited yourself to this, I would completely agree with you. But you completely undid you own point by including the next song...


Oh, yeah.

I posted what I posted advisedly.
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ag
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 05:17:27 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2015, 05:29:51 PM by ag »


победобесие ? Google does not translate.

that is a recent neologism Smiley Used to describe what the Russian government has done to the victory celebration. Victordevilry could be a rough (though very imperfect) translation. A southern Slav should get it from general linguistic considerations.
My first idea was actually victory madness. But the meaning is pretty similar and it has just as little relevance to the real world as Victordevilrty has.


Unfortunately, it is what the KGB government of Russia has done to the memory of those who fought and fell in that war.

You know that for the first few years after the war, the VE was not even a holiday in Russia? You know that they forcibly institutionalized quadriplegic vets - so that they would not spoil with their unhealthy appearance the life of reconstruction? And now, that there are almost no vets left, they have declared prison camp guards and those who fought against the Ukrainians and Lithuanians in the 1950s to be the WWII vets. The KGB has stolen the memory of the true heroes for its executioners. And that is what we should not forget.
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ag
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« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 05:20:26 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2015, 05:24:33 PM by ag »

But if you insist on a properly Ukrainian song, then, of course, there is - and has always been - this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEuIfvgodAw

This is, of course, something not to forget. Ukrainians do know the general Soviet canon, but the Russians are totally ignorant of the Ukrainian. Every Ukrainian knew this one through the Soviet years - it was a completely unexpected discovery for me when this war started.
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ag
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« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2015, 05:32:16 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2015, 05:35:16 PM by ag »


No one is forgetting the 45 years of Soviet domination, but in the Western countries they have certainly forgotten the Soviet contribution in WWII.

Not at all. I have shelves upon shelves of books published in the West where the proper due is given - more so than in the frequently fake histories produced in Russia.

Nor have the people in the West forgotten the Russian sacrifices. Here is something you may want to listen to - straight from the Bundestag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQwO-k8Gbpc
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ag
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« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2015, 10:32:04 PM »

BTW, I have discovered this wonderful Russian version of the Njet Molotoff. There are still compatriots that have the right spirit out there Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW8_iAlGo3E

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