A fair assessment of the SNP?

[afleitch]

Torie, I promise that whatever point you're making about the SNP, nobody understands it.

If I have an hour I'll dismember it. But I don't.

[The Mikado]

Torie, I have carefully read your posts because the argumentation is familiar to me. We have separatist parties and stateless nations in Spain (I'm from there) and had endless discussions on the subject. Even though I'm not a big fan of the SNP, I disagree with your point of view both on the "purpose" and the "fundamental dishonestity". Their stated purpose is clear in the SNP manifesto and it's not different from similar parties in other countries. I doubt people in Scotland got fooled by SNP. Scots know perfectly what is the SNP about and still they gave the party the mandate to represent them in Westminster, in spite of the negative vote a majority of them cast recently on independence. As for the second point, it can be argued that Cameron is fundamentally dishonest on the issue of the EU referendum. I've been reading that the British PM could campaign for a yes' vote, providing that the UK stays in the EU under more relaxed conditions. Many advocates of European integration have always seen the reluctant UK as an obstacle towards the realization of that goal. Wouldn't be more politically honest just leave?

I don't see what is dishonest about Cameron saying he wants to try to get a better deal from the EU, and from what I read, he's likely to get something from Merkel. If it is more cosmetic than real, than Cameron has a tough decision to make about which way to go on the EU referendum. He's party is deeply divided on the issue is my impression.

Did the SNP get many votes from those who voted "no" on Scottish independence? My impression is that they did not. And how many voted SNP because they felt Labour was not left enough, as opposed to it being mostly about the independence issue?  Anyway, whatever the dynamic, I would be very surprised if Scotland is still part of the UK ten years hence.

Well, Yes got 45% of the vote last year and SNP got 50% of the vote in Scotland last week, so there has to be some No/SNP voters.

The point remains that the SNP did as well as it did by reaching beyond the Yes voter pool to people more skeptical about independence and did manage to sell them on the idea that SNP MPs in Westminster would be better for Scotland.

[IceSpear]

Torie, I have carefully read your posts because the argumentation is familiar to me. We have separatist parties and stateless nations in Spain (I'm from there) and had endless discussions on the subject. Even though I'm not a big fan of the SNP, I disagree with your point of view both on the "purpose" and the "fundamental dishonestity". Their stated purpose is clear in the SNP manifesto and it's not different from similar parties in other countries. I doubt people in Scotland got fooled by SNP. Scots know perfectly what is the SNP about and still they gave the party the mandate to represent them in Westminster, in spite of the negative vote a majority of them cast recently on independence. As for the second point, it can be argued that Cameron is fundamentally dishonest on the issue of the EU referendum. I've been reading that the British PM could campaign for a yes' vote, providing that the UK stays in the EU under more relaxed conditions. Many advocates of European integration have always seen the reluctant UK as an obstacle towards the realization of that goal. Wouldn't be more politically honest just leave?

I don't see what is dishonest about Cameron saying he wants to try to get a better deal from the EU, and from what I read, he's likely to get something from Merkel. If it is more cosmetic than real, than Cameron has a tough decision to make about which way to go on the EU referendum. He's party is deeply divided on the issue is my impression.

Did the SNP get many votes from those who voted "no" on Scottish independence? My impression is that they did not. And how many voted SNP because they felt Labour was not left enough, as opposed to it being mostly about the independence issue?  Anyway, whatever the dynamic, I would be very surprised if Scotland is still part of the UK ten years hence.

Well, Yes got 45% of the vote last year and SNP got 50% of the vote in Scotland last week, so there has to be some No/SNP voters.

The point remains that the SNP did as well as it did by reaching beyond the Yes voter pool to people more skeptical about independence and did manage to sell them on the idea that SNP MPs in Westminster would be better for Scotland.

Or possibly yes voters were just more likely to vote in the GE.

[Donerail]

Torie, I have carefully read your posts because the argumentation is familiar to me. We have separatist parties and stateless nations in Spain (I'm from there) and had endless discussions on the subject. Even though I'm not a big fan of the SNP, I disagree with your point of view both on the "purpose" and the "fundamental dishonestity". Their stated purpose is clear in the SNP manifesto and it's not different from similar parties in other countries. I doubt people in Scotland got fooled by SNP. Scots know perfectly what is the SNP about and still they gave the party the mandate to represent them in Westminster, in spite of the negative vote a majority of them cast recently on independence. As for the second point, it can be argued that Cameron is fundamentally dishonest on the issue of the EU referendum. I've been reading that the British PM could campaign for a yes' vote, providing that the UK stays in the EU under more relaxed conditions. Many advocates of European integration have always seen the reluctant UK as an obstacle towards the realization of that goal. Wouldn't be more politically honest just leave?

I don't see what is dishonest about Cameron saying he wants to try to get a better deal from the EU, and from what I read, he's likely to get something from Merkel. If it is more cosmetic than real, than Cameron has a tough decision to make about which way to go on the EU referendum. He's party is deeply divided on the issue is my impression.

Did the SNP get many votes from those who voted "no" on Scottish independence? My impression is that they did not. And how many voted SNP because they felt Labour was not left enough, as opposed to it being mostly about the independence issue?  Anyway, whatever the dynamic, I would be very surprised if Scotland is still part of the UK ten years hence.

Well, Yes got 45% of the vote last year and SNP got 50% of the vote in Scotland last week, so there has to be some No/SNP voters.

The point remains that the SNP did as well as it did by reaching beyond the Yes voter pool to people more skeptical about independence and did manage to sell them on the idea that SNP MPs in Westminster would be better for Scotland.

Or possibly yes voters were just more likely to vote in the GE.

By raw vote totals, the SNP vote was equivalent to 90% of the 'Yes' vote in the referendum; combined vote for all unionist parties only equals around 73% of 'No' votes. Whether that's a factor of turnout or the appeal of the SNP, I don't know.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's fairly clear that Yes voters were more pumped up.