Labour Party leadership election 2015

[politicus]

Alan Johnson has endorsed Yvette Cooper and some journos have decribed that as a sign she now has he suport of "the Blairite" wing. I thought Johnson was a bit further left than being an actual Blairite?

[Blair]

Alan Johnson has endorsed Yvette Cooper and some journos have decribed that as a sign she now has he suport of "the Blairite" wing. I thought Johnson was a bit further left than being an actual Blairite?

It's difficult because 10 years ago Blairite and Brownite was more about who you supported rather than your own actual ideology. Johnson however was part of pushing through some of the more right wing aspects of the last labour government-sacking David Nutall over drug reform, pushing through tuition fees, ID cards etc. IMO he's a vastly overrated politician

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Alan Johnson has endorsed Yvette Cooper and some journos have decribed that as a sign she now has he suport of "the Blairite" wing. I thought Johnson was a bit further left than being an actual Blairite?

The thing is the self-confessed Blairite has collapsed so the modernisers are moving on to a more likely person to defeat the Corbyn menace.

[Phony Moderate]

There's a difference between being on the Labour Right and being a Blairite. Many journalists don't seem to grasp this.

[Blair]

There's a difference between being on the Labour Right and being a Blairite. Many journalists don't seem to grasp this.

It seems your either a Corbyn supporter or a Blairite in the current labour party

[DavidB.]

There's a difference between being on the Labour Right and being a Blairite. Many journalists don't seem to grasp this.

What is this difference?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Most political journalists know nothing of THIGMOO* or its traditions, rules and tendencies - There are supposedly serious pieces of 'analysis' being published in which it is implied that the registered Affiliate supporters are 'new' to the process of electing a leader ffs - so what do you expect?  Certainly it would be unrealistic to expect them to, you know, do their jobs like professionals and rectify their ignorance.

_{*This Great Movement Of Ours.}

[Phony Moderate]

There's a difference between being on the Labour Right and being a Blairite. Many journalists don't seem to grasp this.

What is this difference?

The main factions within the party are:

Traditional right - accepted most of the 'New Labour' stuff but more open to social conservatism and Euroscepticism.
Modernising right - advocates of the 'centre ground' approach to economic policy, firmly New Labour, socially liberal and Europhile. Blairites if you like.
Technocrats - Gordon Brown loyalists, many of whom served in his cabinet.
Soft left - The left of the party that isn't the Socialist Campaign Group.
Hard left - The Socialist Campaign Group MPs and a good chunk of the membership.

[Hnv1]

There's a difference between being on the Labour Right and being a Blairite. Many journalists don't seem to grasp this.

What is this difference?

The main factions within the party are:

Traditional right - accepted most of the 'New Labour' stuff but more open to social conservatism and Euroscepticism.
Modernising right - advocates of the 'centre ground' approach to economic policy, firmly New Labour, socially liberal and Europhile. Blairites if you like.
Technocrats - Gordon Brown loyalists, many of whom served in his cabinet.
Soft left - The left of the party that isn't the Socialist Campaign Group.
Hard left - The Socialist Campaign Group MPs and a good chunk of the membership.

So basically New Labour economics with working class midlands social attitude?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Well, the Trad Right is more "pragmatic" than "liberal" in the economic sense. Many of them are after all ex-union bruisers; while new Labourites typically align with think tanks, business or the third sector.

[Hifly]

Well, the Trad Right is more "pragmatic" than "liberal" in the economic sense. Many of them are after all ex-union bruisers; while new Labourites typically align with think tanks, business or the third sector.

And with the Community Union, probably the most functionless union that exists. Membership is an obligation for all careerist blairites.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well it has a function in the areas where it is basically the rebranded Iron and Steel Trades Confederation, and has political power in them as well (i.e. their endorsement is the only reason why Stephen Kinnock is an MP). I wonder what proportion of Community members live in South Wales, must be pretty high.

[Hifly]

Richard Angell has represented them, which tells you all you need to know.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So basically New Labour economics with working class midlands social attitude?

It can work out like that in some cases, but that's not exactly it. Pragmatism (as Crabcake rightly pointed out) is a big thing: I 'understand' that many people who can be described as such (ahem) actually have very left-wing views on economic&social policy, but 'they' tend to be more interested in winning elections than in ideological purity (i.e. 'the worst Labour government is better than the best Tory one' argument). Another thing is foreign policy though; this is the wing of the Party that in the Cold War was characterized above all by fierce anticommunism and was generally pro-NATO.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Richard Angell has represented them, which tells you all you need to know.

Yeah. It's like a satire on the more absurd Marxist figures in some other unions but real.

[Phony Moderate]

Ken Livingstone is backing Eagle for Deputy. Not sure if that was already known.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

A lot of the "soft left" are wary of Corbyn because they had a unique part in creating the conditions of the infamous late 70's to early 80's meltdown. They allied with the hard left to create the Labour Coordinating Committee, a very broad organisation representing a pull to the left. After the LCC endorsed Tony Benn's challenge against Healy, the whole program started to teeter once more with Benn's highly divisive approach to the campaign. The whole thing started to be seen as a ghastly mistake, and the LCC became the most enthusiastically anti-hard left organisation in the party and Kinnock's anti-Milltiant program.

The LCC also dominated the Labour student movement (NOLS), who cut all their ties with the "Broad Left" and became fanatically anti-Trot (they also begat Charles Clarke and Jim Murphy, which tells a lot) . A lot of the soft left would become key allies of the reformists and many key members would serve in the Blair cabinet. It seems that the soft left organisations have been slowly drifting leftwards (e.g. The Grassroots Alliance) but many members have enormous feelings of guilt about the Benn endorsement and the Wilderness years.

(Al will probably correct me if I've failed on the details of this, but it's my understanding)

[Joe Republic]

Who are the Co-Op MPs leaning towards, and which faction do they typically align with?

[Blair]

Two interesting videos put out by both Kendall and Burnham last night. It's interesting to highlight the differences-Kendall's was talking about 2020 and was actually pretty good for her, whilst Andy's was about him with his family and showing him being an ordinary bloke. It was pretty shameless but its what voters seem to like. I doubt we'll be seeing Yvette with her family.

I know I sound like a bigoted old conservative but we don't often see leadership races where 3/4 candidates have had issues raised about their families-Kendall for not being a 'mum', Cooper for being married to Balls, and Corbyn for leaving his wife over trying to send their son to a grammar school

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Corbyn left his wife over what?

[Blair]

Corbyn left his wife over what?

The press report was that he left his wife because she wanted to send their kids to a grammar school, which is a state ran school that's often only open to higher ability students. For some reason our political class obsess about where our MP's send their kids

[Simfan34]

Also, is it true Corbyn divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a grammar school?

I believe it is Simfan.

Corbyn left his wife over what?

The press report was that he left his wife because she wanted to send their kids to a grammar school, which is a state ran school that's often only open to higher ability students. For some reason our political class obsess about where our MP's send their kids

I've come to think of it as a perverse sort of strange horror movie-style test of how far one is willing to go to advance their political career. Instead of, say, sawing off your hand, though, you have to be willing to sacrifice your children's futures and send them to a comprehensive which are, for some reason, all like inner-city schools (the one in Corbyn's case was, I believe, particularly abysmal). Deeply disturbing.

I hope Tories don't have to deal with such sentiment as much?

[Blair]

Also, is it true Corbyn divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a grammar school?

I believe it is Simfan.

Corbyn left his wife over what?

The press report was that he left his wife because she wanted to send their kids to a grammar school, which is a state ran school that's often only open to higher ability students. For some reason our political class obsess about where our MP's send their kids

I've come to think of it as a perverse sort of strange horror movie-style test of how far one is willing to go to advance their political career. Instead of, say, sawing off your hand, though, you have to be willing to sacrifice your children's futures and send them to a comprehensive which are, for some reason, all like inner-city schools (the one in Corbyn's case was, I believe, particularly abysmal). Deeply disturbing.

I hope Tories don't have to deal with such sentiment as much?

I mean London schools have been greatly improved by the Academy system but if I had the money to send my child to the best school possible I'd want them to go there. That doesn't mean that I think that state schools are bad

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There are two litmus test that underline MP's hypocrisy the media love to wheedle out:

- Labour MP's sending their children to private or grammar schools. Comprehensive schools, like the NHS, are Labour's baby and (just like that fuss in the states where apparently Congress were exempt from Obamacare) it is seen as a bit hypocritical on their part.

 see: The Thick of It, where government minister Nicola Murray is ferociously flailed by spin doctor Malcolm Tucker for planning to send her daughter to an independent school:

Do you honestly believe that as a minister you can get away with that? You are saying that all your local state schools; ALL the schools that this government has drastically improved are knife-addled rape sheds and that's not a big story? For f-ck's sake! Sort it, or abort it! Let's get this clear.

Tory Mp's do not have this litmus test; indeed it would be quite odd for Tories (as a whole) to have anything to do with the comprehensive system. They instead are disproportionate sufferers of the sex scandal, especially the ones linked to FAMILY VALUES!! Like the old joke goes: how many Tory MP's does it take to replace a lightbulb? two, one to screw it in, the other to accidentally hang themselves from the rafters in a perverted act involving women's underwear.

[Phony Moderate]

You know, there is the possibility that we haven't seen the last of Ed. John Howard's first spell as Liberal leader (1985-1989) was widely seen as a disaster and the man himself as inept, unpopular and awkward.